Greenhorn Clutch Question
05-28-2003, 05:05 PM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Greenhorn Clutch Question
Hi Yall,
I have a question on my '71 911T with a '69 Tranny/Clutch...I'm having much difficulty shifting into first and reverse from a dead stop...something is still spinning in there and preventing proper engagement (could probably force it in but it would be with major grindage to get it there)...could it be that the clutch is not disengaging fully? I can downshift into 1st from 2nd when rolling to a stop, or if I have it in another gear at a dead stop, I can disengage the clutch and hold the break to bring the RPMS down really low and quickly sneak it into 1st or reverse. All other gears seem to be starting to require more effort as well, but engage properly with a just a lil extra umph. Ohh one more thing, when I take the car out of 1st gear, at a dead stop on level ground with the engine running, take foot off break and the car rolls forward, probably would do 3-4 mph if I let it. Could this be caused by a stretched clutch cable? Bad shift coupler adjustment? I've replaced the coupler bushings and the shifter cup bushing...any others that I should look at? The clutch adjustment is out of room to adjust any further...anyone having any ideas you would suggest before I start tinkering would be most appreciated.
Thx,
Jamie
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1971 911T Targa
I have a question on my '71 911T with a '69 Tranny/Clutch...I'm having much difficulty shifting into first and reverse from a dead stop...something is still spinning in there and preventing proper engagement (could probably force it in but it would be with major grindage to get it there)...could it be that the clutch is not disengaging fully? I can downshift into 1st from 2nd when rolling to a stop, or if I have it in another gear at a dead stop, I can disengage the clutch and hold the break to bring the RPMS down really low and quickly sneak it into 1st or reverse. All other gears seem to be starting to require more effort as well, but engage properly with a just a lil extra umph. Ohh one more thing, when I take the car out of 1st gear, at a dead stop on level ground with the engine running, take foot off break and the car rolls forward, probably would do 3-4 mph if I let it. Could this be caused by a stretched clutch cable? Bad shift coupler adjustment? I've replaced the coupler bushings and the shifter cup bushing...any others that I should look at? The clutch adjustment is out of room to adjust any further...anyone having any ideas you would suggest before I start tinkering would be most appreciated.
Thx,
Jamie
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1971 911T Targa
05-30-2003, 09:08 PM
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Hi Jamie:
First of all, do you have a shop manual? You should have at least the Haines manual. It's curious that you have a '71 with a '69 clutch. The clutches up to '69 were push type and in '70 they went to a pull type. I have a '70. It sounds like you don't have the travel adjusted.The first thing you need to do is adjust the free play.Normally on a '71 you would pull the pedal toward you to check the free play. But since you have a '69 clutch you would push it towards the floor.You shoul have sbout 20-25mm free play. When you get that, pull up the carpet undr the pedals and you'll find a strap that limits the travel of the clutch pedal.With the engine idling you should just be able to shift into reverse with litlle or no grinding. If you can't,that means your clutch is not releasing fully.Possibly the disk is binding on the splines on the mainshaft or your pilot bearing could be sticking. The pressure plate could be binding or just worn out. If you can't adjust it with the cable and the limit strap you'll have to pull the drive train to find out what's going on.
Good Luck
First of all, do you have a shop manual? You should have at least the Haines manual. It's curious that you have a '71 with a '69 clutch. The clutches up to '69 were push type and in '70 they went to a pull type. I have a '70. It sounds like you don't have the travel adjusted.The first thing you need to do is adjust the free play.Normally on a '71 you would pull the pedal toward you to check the free play. But since you have a '69 clutch you would push it towards the floor.You shoul have sbout 20-25mm free play. When you get that, pull up the carpet undr the pedals and you'll find a strap that limits the travel of the clutch pedal.With the engine idling you should just be able to shift into reverse with litlle or no grinding. If you can't,that means your clutch is not releasing fully.Possibly the disk is binding on the splines on the mainshaft or your pilot bearing could be sticking. The pressure plate could be binding or just worn out. If you can't adjust it with the cable and the limit strap you'll have to pull the drive train to find out what's going on.
Good Luck
05-31-2003, 01:31 PM
#3
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Thanks for the reply MrFS!
It is odd I know, but I found out the hard way that it is a '69...when I got the car it needed a tranny rebuild, so since the engine and car serial #'s matched, I figured it was safe to order a rebuilt '71 before I had the old tranny off....dropped engine, went to put it on and BINGO it didnt fit. Well, after some research, turns out its a '69 tranny (pull type), with '69 clutch parts. BOO!
Very expensive to replace back to original (throw out bearing fork alone for the '70-'72 push type is like $590), so I just returned the '71 and got the '69 rebuilt.
Ok, so here's a bit more info, hopefully it might shed some more direct light on exactly whats going on... when I push the pedal in just as HARD as I can, I can shift into 1st without any grind, and reverse with barely any grind. This makes me think adjustment problem, or possibly clutch cable stretch...can that cable stretch? I have no more room for adjustment at the engine end...I'll try the pedal end today and keep you posted!
Thanks,
Jamie
-----
1971 911T Targa
It is odd I know, but I found out the hard way that it is a '69...when I got the car it needed a tranny rebuild, so since the engine and car serial #'s matched, I figured it was safe to order a rebuilt '71 before I had the old tranny off....dropped engine, went to put it on and BINGO it didnt fit. Well, after some research, turns out its a '69 tranny (pull type), with '69 clutch parts. BOO!
Very expensive to replace back to original (throw out bearing fork alone for the '70-'72 push type is like $590), so I just returned the '71 and got the '69 rebuilt.
Ok, so here's a bit more info, hopefully it might shed some more direct light on exactly whats going on... when I push the pedal in just as HARD as I can, I can shift into 1st without any grind, and reverse with barely any grind. This makes me think adjustment problem, or possibly clutch cable stretch...can that cable stretch? I have no more room for adjustment at the engine end...I'll try the pedal end today and keep you posted!
Thanks,
Jamie
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1971 911T Targa
05-31-2003, 10:42 PM
#4
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I think you have the wrong clutch cable.If you still have the original '71 cable,I think that's the problem, especially since you can get it into gear by pushing real hard. I believe the '71 cable is longer, which would account for what you call possible cable stretch. The '69 cable is cheaper too. I'm not sure if the guide tube is the same or not. You might not have to replace that. Ask your parts supplier.
06-15-2003, 06:11 PM
#5
Intermediate
Thread Starter
I think you are right Mrflatsix!
Since I didnt have any of my tools with me while I work at this new job away from home, I decided to take the car in to what I thought might be a good shop...asked them to take a look at the clutch adjustments, as well as looking at where some oil leak might be, check the wheel bearings which were recently replaced, and a sticky throttle at idle. Well, they say they tightened a wheel bearing, shot the accelerator with some wd40, told me i needed all the engine seals redone, plus the clutch could not be adjusted any further, and in the same damn sentance it should be about $1200 dollars for the clutch and at least $3k for engine seals...and it the same damn sentance..."do you want us to get started?" All I wanted them to do was look!
Well I held off of course...took it home, got my tools finally, crawled under...I was able to adjust the clutch, it functions MUCH nicer now...not perfect but much nicer...plus i was able to tighten ALOT of engine bolts, like along the main gasket that holds the two sides together, on both valve covers, chain tensioner housing...instantly my pressure went up from 4'ish to 5'ish, almost 6 at highway speeds, where it was when I bought the car a year and a half ago. So now I have way nicer clutch, way better compression...Now how come they didnt do any of that?
Ok..sorry for my rant...just makes me mad it seems like those guys were out for my $$$$ and not my happiness...all they wanted to show me was the ALL or NOTHING fix...no "maintenence" type fixes that I was subsequently able to do myself. Yes it needs those things done, but there were obviously things that could be done prior to postpone the need in my view.
Ok, so my next thing is to shorten up that cable just a bit...it looks like its in good contdition...i think im going to disconnect it from the throwout bearing arm and try and shorten it there with a few small washers, give me a bit more room to adjust. I know I should replace the whole cable, but the 69 or 71 dillema makes me want to try and do some creative engineering first, see if that will do the trick all together. Ill keep you posted! Thanks!
Jamie
-----
1971 911T Targa
Since I didnt have any of my tools with me while I work at this new job away from home, I decided to take the car in to what I thought might be a good shop...asked them to take a look at the clutch adjustments, as well as looking at where some oil leak might be, check the wheel bearings which were recently replaced, and a sticky throttle at idle. Well, they say they tightened a wheel bearing, shot the accelerator with some wd40, told me i needed all the engine seals redone, plus the clutch could not be adjusted any further, and in the same damn sentance it should be about $1200 dollars for the clutch and at least $3k for engine seals...and it the same damn sentance..."do you want us to get started?" All I wanted them to do was look!
Well I held off of course...took it home, got my tools finally, crawled under...I was able to adjust the clutch, it functions MUCH nicer now...not perfect but much nicer...plus i was able to tighten ALOT of engine bolts, like along the main gasket that holds the two sides together, on both valve covers, chain tensioner housing...instantly my pressure went up from 4'ish to 5'ish, almost 6 at highway speeds, where it was when I bought the car a year and a half ago. So now I have way nicer clutch, way better compression...Now how come they didnt do any of that?
Ok..sorry for my rant...just makes me mad it seems like those guys were out for my $$$$ and not my happiness...all they wanted to show me was the ALL or NOTHING fix...no "maintenence" type fixes that I was subsequently able to do myself. Yes it needs those things done, but there were obviously things that could be done prior to postpone the need in my view.
Ok, so my next thing is to shorten up that cable just a bit...it looks like its in good contdition...i think im going to disconnect it from the throwout bearing arm and try and shorten it there with a few small washers, give me a bit more room to adjust. I know I should replace the whole cable, but the 69 or 71 dillema makes me want to try and do some creative engineering first, see if that will do the trick all together. Ill keep you posted! Thanks!
Jamie
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1971 911T Targa
