bbinder

After many years of admiring the 911, I have decided to purchase my first one. My budget is $20,000 and my dumb, newbie question is: why is the price for some 1999 cars similar to the price of 1980s era cars? Aside from the desirability of owning an air/oil cooled 911, is there any reason not to look at a 1999 model assuming that the PPIs of each show no major problems?

911 Crazy

99-02 had major engine issues. Order and read Peter Zimmerman's book, history of the 911. There's a link at the bottom of his signature page at the top of this section on his PPI thread. Good luck!

Batman 357

The older cars are more ballerina like and require greater skills to drive well.

The newer cars are more powerful with driver aids and better creature comforts.

masterdave

+1 for the newer cars having more issues.
how ever that being said the 2.7 911's had plenty of issues as well so not all air cooled are issue free. the 3.0 and 3.2 911SC and Carrera respectively are considered very well made and very reliable. The 964 that came after them is also considered a very good car.

If you have 20K you can get a very decent SC or Carrera. Those are the ones I was looking at when I bought my 78 SC so i cant speak to the 964 markets.

Personally I would go for the older ones simply because when some thing goes wrong, and some thing will go wrong, it will be far easier to deal with. Once you get in to the water cooled 911's you get a whole new world of issues. the 3.0 and 3.2 engines are very straight forward and do exactly what they should. It all boils down to what you want the car for. As a DD you may want to go for a newer one, that will give you AC that works, and many of the modern things that people expect in a car. If you are looking for a weekend thrills car go for the SC-Carrera era. These cars are a blast to drive. Mine doesn't even have AC and the people i know that have it, it either doesn't work or they spent 1k making it modern and working. The cars dont have cup holders, but you should be driving when you are in these cars not sipping a laté. The best thing you can do is get behind the wheel of a few and see what you like.

Did you have any thing in mind yet?

regards
Dave

911dean

I would recommend a SC or a Carrera. They make great fun cars. They also can make dependable daily drivers if your willing to give up modern car conviences. I'm in complete agrement with Dave. 20k is doable but don't forget ppi and shipping costs.
Dean

redridge

The water cooled cars are more abundant..... That is why they are similar price. As for engine issues, yes they have their issues.... But if you get a good ppi on them, they are great cars. It really depends on what you are after.... A slow car to drive fast or a fast car to drive slow. Don't take it the wrong way the air cooled cars are not slow... But you need a bit more concentration to drive them at spirited speeds. The water cooled cars need to be driven much harder to get the same thrills as the older cars at a much slower speed. They are both great at the track, but the newer models will always be faster.... But the driver will always be a factor.

911Dave

Everyone keeps avoiding the real truth. The 996's low prices are primarily due to being less desirable than the cars that came before and, to some extent, after. They are good cars, but their styling is...uh...disappointing compared to all the other years. The IMS bearing failures are also a factor, but most 996's did not suffer from this problem and nearly all of them that did would have been fixed by now.

911 Crazy

Good point.

bbinder

Thanks for the fast responses -- any other input is appreciated. I do not have anything in mind as I am just beginning to wrap my head around this. I have Zimmerman's book and plan to do more research -- this is part of the fun, right? I don't have any prospects at the present time, and will probably look to purchase after the winter. After owning a couple of classic Saab 900s (I owned 2 that I drove for total of 25 years), I am a little wary of fragile/finicky transmissions, so the 915 transmission scares me a little. I am not, however, put off by owning an older car, and fully expect to have ongoing expenses, etc.

Needless to say, I am excited about this journey!

ivangene

I owned a 996 and like MANY felt the styling was NOT part of the reason the price is low...

It is simply supply and demand, nothing more.....
It has very little to do with reliability or probability of having a mechanical issue.... its the simple fact that they made LOTS of them

I wont debate this and dont want to start a fight but I also want to defend the great car that a 996 is..and NO it is not an air cooled SC or Carerra - but a good car and many are driven everyday that dont even know they have potential downsides

kyle242gt

Hi bbinder, I was in the same boat as you last week, except I was under some pressure to buy a car quickly.

I always been drawn cosmetically to the pre-89 cars, I really dig the impact bumpers... probably a function of my age. If the appearance doesn't seal the deal, the best thing for you is some seat time. I drove a 964 C4 and loved it. Even though it didn't have "the look", it still had the sound and smell and feel that I wanted without even knowing it.

Then I drove my SC and it was all over. Way down on power, way down on weight, way down on creature comforts, and way down on price.

I also figured a RWD 1980 model with 16" wheels and weensy brakes would be easier and cheaper to maintain than an AWD 1989 model with 18"s.

Lastly, I never really fell in love with my prior DD (1996 M3 with a supercharger) due to its performance envelope.... limits were just too high to be reasonably explored on the street. My prior-prior DD, a tracked-out Miata, on the other hand was an absolute joy every time I strapped in. Just too small for a guy with two small kids. And let's be honest, a stock-engined Miata is pretty slow.

So far, and this is only a week in, the SC seems to fit the bill as the four-seat Miata I'd wished for.

911 Crazy

Congrats on the new car! Pictures???

masterdave

Ahhh you have entered the classic 915/G50 trans debate. There is most likely more argument here than any other aspect of the car. The 915 trans in my opinion is extremely solid. Yes the shift between 1st and 2nd is a bit different than most people are used to but that does not make it a bad trans. The G50 is super smooth, it is much like a newer car and you will be able to get in a use it well right away. As for the 915 it takes some getting used to. Personally I am happy I ended up with it, it has made me a better driver and cased me to pay close attention to my shifts. I will admit the clutch gives you a bit of a calf work out in traffic but thats what makes the car what it is. If the car were easy to deal with it would be a civic. Dont be scared away from pre 87 cars because of the 915 it is a very good trans.

Regards
Dave

tkrtape12

I've been itching to get a 911,simply as a toy not a DD so I've been kind a slowly looking and I came across this one..I know could be buying someone elses problems but what a great looking toy..GL

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

Mr. G

bbinder,
I'm in a similar position to you, looking for my first 911 after MANY years of dreaming. Here's my 10 cents on the 915/G50 issue.
I was avoiding 915 trans. cars because I had "heard" that the 915 transmission was finicky and overall less desirable than the G50. I had previously only driven one 915 trans. car and the shifting was TERRIBLE. However, it was a poorly maintained car. It did scare me off though.
Very recently I found a 1981 SC that looked great so I took it for a drive. The shifting was excellent. I've never actually driven a G50 car so can't comment on the differences. I don't claim to be an expert driver but I found the 915 transmission to be perfectly acceptable; fun even.
This experience has broadened my options substantially.
It seems G50 cars are generally more desirable so you will likley get back the premium if and when you sell but I would not shy away from a nice 915 car because it is "difficul;t to drive".