Whipple

I've long dreamt of owning a Porsche 911. I've finally graduated school and have enough savings and disposable income that, from the little research I've done, I could swing a 2002-2003 model (can spend about $45,000 max). I've always heard get the newest you can. So my question: is this even possible for living in a place with hard winters? I live in Minnesota. We have a lot of snow and ice, roads are salted for much of the year. Most of the Porsche ads I read clearly state that their car has been garaged from usually Thanksgiving to May 1. I want to buy this car to make it a daily driver and keep for a long time. I can do basic maintenance (oil, coolant, brakes, etc.) and I want to maintain this myself to save money and because I enjoy it. So before I get too invested in this, is it feasible? Is there an all wheel drive model?

Thanks! I've been reading here a bit, and it seems like a great community.

tawheed

Hello and welcome! Though I'm a bit of a n00b around these parts I'm currently on my second Porsche. The models you are looking at '02-'03 are actually the water cooled 996 model which have their own subforum. This forum is devoted to talk of the pre-964 air cooled 911s.

As for your question, there is no reason why you couldn't buy an '02 or '03 Carerra4, 4S or Turbo and use it year round. Where I'm from the winters are quite terrible and a few people drive the above mentioned all wheel drive versions of the 996 year round.

Whipple

Thanks for the reply and for pointing me in the right direction.

Caferacer

Whipple, if you're still here and not on the 996 forum, I want to qualify what you said about getting the newest you can. Condition is more important than age as in, "get the best newest car you can." You may want to decide beforehand which model (911, 964, 996, 997, 991!) you want to get then find the "best newest". My recent experience was to narrow my search to model years then find the right car as you seem to be doing. I highly, highly recommend that you join PCA Quest (for non owners looking to become owners) then attend an event or two where you look at many different cars side by side. Also, search the forums for specific foibles of certain model years of the water cooled cars (ahem). Congrats on finishing school. You won't believe how much fun your Porsche will be!

theiceman

a 996 C4S should fit his bill nicely . Lots of guys Here in Canada drive them all year round. A good set of snows and he will be good to go .

Whipple

Thanks for the continued advice. I'm in no rush and want to find the perfect car. It seems I might have to buy it long distance though. Not too many Porsche owners here in the Midwest.

Caferacer

Another piece of advice I have heard here is to retain a portion of your budget for unanticipated fixes, fun upgrades and carbon fiber shift ****. Just kidding about that last part. I agree with iceman, the C4 sounds like it fits the bill and you have a number of models to choose from.

Arctic1

Buy the best car that you like, regardless of what others may say.

You can drive them year round. There are examples of every type of production car made by Porsche that have been driven in the mud, rain, snow, etc.. Its only since we have had the money to keep two cars that you see so many garaged during the winter months.

Good luck and enjoy, whatever version of Porsche you get.

jb

jakeflyer

I hate to go against the flow and object to Porsche plus Salt is OK. That makes the assumption that they salt the roads where you are. IF you are going to drive on salt roads then try to buy a car that has been there and done that and pay a discount for it. Or is you find a nice 911, spend $3,000 or so for a 1996 thru 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0, 4x4, 2 and 4 wheel drive option. Good for snow, ice, high water, mud, and off road.

That way you can buy a nice SC or Carrera and not hate yourself for the rust issues that will happen, and if you keep it for years, the decrease in value.

Even cars in places like Newport Beach and Santa Monica, on the ocean, have issues.

Denver and KC are pretty good for P cars on Craig’s list.

blake

I am a long time Porsche nut, and bought my first one in college in 1993 (79 SC btw). As you can see in my signature, I have owned an SC, a 964, a 996.2 and a 997.1. Many friends own 911s and we spend countless hours on web boards and using email to share stories and work through occassional gremlins.

For your purposes, I see 3 categories of the 911: 1) 1999-today (996 & 997), 2) 1989-1998 (964 & 993), and 3) pre-1989 911s. Group 3 is incredibly raw and a purist car. I would not consider one as a DD for snow or ice, but they make great weekend/evening cars when a Subaru is in the garage. Group 2 is a bit more tricky. Porsche began to make cars at that point using techniques learned in Japan, so the cars are a bit more compliant and offer more comfort. The 964 C4 (89/90) would make a good DD, as would any 993 C4/C4S. The 964 C4s are relative bargains, but the 993 C4s (especially the C4S) tends to be higher sought after garage queens. You could pursue this route, but the age of the car and cost of maintenance would make it a reach IMHO. Now Group 1 911s (1999-on) are more comparable to a modern car with creature comforts (good AC, reliable, etc.). As you can see by market prices, the 996 was not viewed favorably by purist Porschephiles, but did expand the market of the 911 (more 996s were sold than any other previous run of 911s). IMHO, the 996 would be your best bet.... They are reliable, well built, and have already depreciated. Go for it..

The last open would be C2 versus C4. As I live in the mountains of Utah, I deal with winter driving 8 months of the year. 911 C2s are great in the snow as the extra weight over the rear drive wheels provide plenty of grip. The trick is to put the proper winter tires on the car. Some recommend a separate tire/wheel package for winter, and you could go that route. It is cheaper to just put on snow/ice tires on the existing wheels and swap them twice per year with summer performance tires. I personally chose a C2 as my DD over a C4 as I like the feel of the C2 a bit better... With winter tires, it is perfection...

Good luck with your search.
-Blake

Whipple

Unfortunately where I live, salt is on the road maybe 7 months a year. I'm not going to buy a Porsche to drive it less than half the year. Maybe down the road I'll get a second new one that I can save for the summer months but I want to get a Porsche to drive.

Thanks for the advice. Your thoughts on the C2 vs C4 add a new spin. I think you're the only one so far to recommend the C2 in winter conditions. That's an interesting thought and the C2 is cheaper so that would more than make up for having two sets of tires and getting them remounted twice a year. What do you like about the C2 more? Why do you think some people say that the C4 is almost required in snow and ice conditions?

syzygy

I wouldn't expect that a C4 is required, but rather nice to have. Having all wheel drive adds a bit of extra confidence inspiring capability. In real winter conditions with snow and ice, in ANY vehicle, having some extra wheels driving is a bonus.

theiceman

you have to really consider the tires changing vs new wheels bit , depends on what you buy for winter wheels but consider that is will cost you about a hundred bucks for a seasonal changover and balancing of high performance wheels. twice a year is 200.00 times a 4 year winter tire life on avaerage that would be over 800.00 just it tire changeovers. plus your winter rims you may want to consider making smaller and give you more sidewall for better traction and ride .. also consider cliiping a curb in bad weather .. wanna do it on a Porsche summer rim ? Just things to consider.

blake

I think iceman is spot on with his comments... There is always a trade-off...

The C4 drivetrain is heavier, and you really feel it in the car. The C2 is easier to throw around, more lively, so I really prefer it on sticky summer tires. I just think the C2 is more fun to drive...

After 12 winter in Utah (350+ inches per year, 500 last winter), and 30K miles per year on my DD running up and down the canyon (5,000 vertical foot change each direction), I have never been stuck in snow. Winter tire technology is amazing (Blizzaks, Pirelli, Michelin - all very good). However, I have learned that the weight of the car is the biggest issue in deep snow. My RWD 3-series convertible was a tank with Blizzaks, but my featherweight, FWD Mini Cooper S with Blizzaks almost got me stuck twice. The car just couldn't get traction on hills with snowpack greater than 6 inches - it would float all over the place...

996/997s have plenty of weight - so either the C2 or C4 will be excellent in winter with the proper tires. Definitely drive both types, and get a feel for what you like... Conversely, the wide hips on the C4 are appealing!

Good luck.
-Blake

Psycho Sid

Lots of different perspectives...
Up to last year I've never used my C4S in winter, decided to give it a try.

Well it handles great with the right snow tires, really not an issue at all.
However most of the time it's not nice white fluffy snow but nasty slush or salt saturated substance not to mention the enormous amounts of gravel...

After going over mainly dry roads P. car was covert in this white powdery substance, did the taste test and wouldn't ya know it...salt!!!
Yep in every crevasse, seam and junction SALT

After that came the stone chips and exposure extremes of going from a garage temp of +15 celcius to -35.... in 2 seconds flat!
Needles to say I only used my C4S 10 times.. maybe.

So can a 911 be a winter car?... yes
Is it capable?... yes.
Is it fun in fluffy snow?... hell yes!
Should you ?...

I'm taking the Benz instead.