schlag

Thoughts? Comments?

Jeff Curtis

OH, what a FUN question!

Myself, I would go for the SC, although heavier...just a little more "modern".

Jack Olson's MONSTER is a hoot, and certainly an exception to my P-Car desires/ideas. The weight savings coupled with that 3.6 must be unreal!

I think I would still choose to wrestle a 3.6 conversion into an SC though.

Bill Verburg

The early cars will need additional chassis work. Things like flares, room for oil coolers where battery boxes are etc. The 25 yr emissions rules can also become an issue, most states waive emission inspection for the older cars, though the engine determines the applicable law, if its not inspected it's not an isssue. transmissions in later cars are more robust, brakes in Carreras are better, suspension in Carreras is better, etc. All in all 84-89 Carrera is easiest, SC next, then the 70s cars.
I have a page devoted to my swap with links to others. <a href="http://www.pelicanparts.com/MotorCity/wmv/3_6liter.htm" target="_blank">3.6 swap</a>

JackOlsen

I agree with Bill.

Carrera brakes are adequate (except maybe for protracted track use) with the bigger powerplant, whereas pre-SC brakes are a little more iffy. Making room for a bumper-mounted oil cooler might be trickier on the older cars (I'm not sure), but a pair of fender-mounted ones pretty much require chopping out the battery boxes. SC/Carrera flares can be added to the early cars, but -- surprise -- they're already there on the SC's and Carreras. Not being able to run bigger tires is going to break your heart when you get the big engine, unless your goal is a total sleeper.

However, the early cars are lighter, smog-exempt (in California, at least), and I just plain prefer the way they look.

My idea of a really cool, no-compromises 911 was 260-280 hp in a car that weighed 2400 or so pounds -- so an early car was the way I chose to go.

And it <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/jackolsen/0to60B.mov" target="_blank">goes</a>.

schlag

Oh ok, so the job on a 3.2L is the easiest? Has anyone converted one of these and have any comments? I live really close to the guy in Delaware who sells the engines/kits, so it's perfect provided I find a nice car for the right price =)

JackOlsen

Easiest, yes. But you're not going to create the fastest car (too much weight), or get the biggest performance jump. Stock Carreras were what, 217 hp? Jumping to 247 (15-20 more with exhaust and chip) isn't nearly the jump my spec-2.2-T 911 made. One day I had 125 hp, the next day, 250.

schlag

OK - what about an SC?

Theyre cheaper to begin with and quite a bit lighter than the 3.2. Big problems converting them?

Jeff Curtis

Again, I would go the SC route, although it's a good 400lbs or so heavier than Jack's '73 - you'll likely spend a lot less doing the conversion.

Would you agree Jack?

The previous comments about SC vs earlier brakes and running bigger tires is another consideration.

You mentioned the 3.2 Carrera, I'm referring to an SC, built from 1978-1983.

If you buy a 3.2 Carrera, you're basically going to pay A LOT more than necessary to startoff your conversion as a 3.2 Carrera costs considerably more than a good solid SC anyday.

BTW, the calipers from an '84 - '89 Carrera with the bigger pistons will bolt right onto an SC strut and you can run the thicker rotor as well.

schlag

Verrry interesting.

Bill Verburg

Things to look for in a 3.6 transplant project beside the basics of a solid rust free chassis.

plus

• 9" rear rear flares(minimum)
• aluminum transmission cases
• 8:31 r/p
• power brakes
• voltage regulation internal to the alternator
• 16x7 & 16x8 alloys(minimum)
• 24mm rotors f/r (minimum)
• lsd
• footwell blowers will allow the deletion of the engine mounted blower more easily(I'm the only one running the engine mounted blower that I know of)

Neutral

• oil coolers, they all need augmentation
• 225mm clutch & p/p unless it's in great shape you will want to replace it any way

minus

• weight
• cost

Wil Ferch

Schlag:
A 3.2 Carrera is not meaningfully heavier than an SC...maybe not even at all.
--Wil Ferch

schlag

Hm, good info.. thanks all!

JackOlsen

Wil, according to my information, a Carrera weighs 132 pounds more than an SC. A US-market SC is 2618 pounds. US Carreras were 2750 pounds. A 73 is 2310 pounds, for comparison.

132 pounds may not seem like a lot -- until you're trying to squeeze tenths of a second out of your lap times.

These numbers are from Peter Morgan's "Original Porsche 911" book. He's generally a reliable source, but I'm suspicious of the fact that he shows a 110-pound gain for the 1986 US Carrera only (must be a typo), and no change in weight when the G50 replaced the 915.

An alternate source, the rennlist FAQ lists:

73T 2250 pounds
78-79SC 2560 pounds
80-83SC 2760 pounds (this is probably a typo, too)
84-86 Carrera 2760 pounds
87-89 Carrera 2770 pounds

Specifics are always tricky. US models generally weighed more than ROW ones. The weights were given for bone stock models, so any power or decorative option will generally make a car's actual weight heavier. My 73T rolled off the showroom floor with over 200 pounds of options, for example, including AC, sunroof and power windows.

JOSHV911

I have a 76 targa with a 3.0 liter and a stosek look wide body kit. I've upgraded to 3 piece 18" rims and ATE 4 piston brakes. I love the car and it looks great, but it just isn't quick enough for me. I just had the tranny rebuilt with a tweeks short shift that helps, but I want more power. I live in Knoxville, and my shop installs the Supercharging of Knox kits for $8500 with the Whipple kit. It is rated at 300 ft lbs which should be plenty, but I think a 3.6 swap would be around the same price. I was thinking a fresh 3.6 would be smarter than putting that much money in a 20 year old engine. I was wondering what I would have to do with the speedometer, if I put in a 3.6, and if there were more problems I should think about before I make a decision?

schlag

I have one more question .. how are the lightweight-70s-era cars if you have to use them as daily transportation?


I'm pretty used to roughing it .. right now I drive a shoddy 944 with no AC and a shaky suspension and drivetrain. :\