Lorenfb

"Well, It hasn't been chipped. So, I think I'll go ahead and order the Steve Wong chip while I have the DME out."

Oh O.K.! So before we find the problem let's put in a so-called 'performance'
chip and make it worse, i.e. As the only real change that occurs is that the
timing is advanced and the likelihood for detonation increases and the
the requirement for higher octane also increases with a chip. The minimum octane
for the stock 3.2 is 91 under all driving conditions, i.e. hot day, driving
under a heavy load (going up hill).

Bottom line: Great advice to a new member with a problem, right!!!!
Thought this advice might come from another forum but not Rennlist.

Ed Hughes

Excellet point Loren. Seems crazy to move away from stock when an unknown problem is being addressed. I'm not sure anyone here recommended he go to a modified chip, however. I did made a comment about the octanes I see available at the pump when I travel to Denver.

dshepp806

I'd get the problem ID'd before loading chip mods....just as Loren suggested.

BEST!

Doyle

Amber Gramps

Kevin, Now that Loren has introduced himself in his normal glorious fashion his advice is sound. Just understand that he has a personal grudge against Steve Wong. Loren makes a living working on DME's and other such electronics and only chimes in when there is an opportunity to bash chips. He does have good advice that you should listen to. I personally develop turret's syndrome when he posts.


....and since we're on the subject, I'll be looking for cold solder joints on my DME later today.

rusnak

^ Lol! Don't forget to stock up on soldering irons and a "how to" book at Radio Shack. So much awesome stuff there to increase performance!

....oh now I've done it. Loren is gonna blow like Vesuvius.

kevinr1247

okay okay! But I want to install an new chip! (in a whining voice). So I need someplace to start. My thought was the chip might correct the "mapping" because the cat has been deleted. But this sounds like a bit of a long shot.

I guess the only thing is to surmise what it could be before I take it in

Because this car is in pretty good shape, and only 109k miles, my goal is to get everything sorted out properly. Mostly it's just cosmetic stuff. And then I'd like to move on to updating the suspension. It runs strong, pulls hard, and shifts smooth, which is what I told the guys over at Master Tech in Bend when I did the post-purchase inspection. They drove it and agreed. There was a vibration which they immediately sorted out. The torsion bar had been installed upside down and it was vibrating against the gearbox. They basically found all the things I found before I bought it. I was 99% sure it had never been hit and they confirmed that for me as well. They pointed out some oil seepage but noted this was common and that my car actually had less than most cars they see of the same vintage. No worries there. They bled the brakes and the clutch fluid and sent me on my way. So far I've driven it 1k miles and have noticed no burning oil at all. Checked the oil the other day and it is right where it was on the dipstick 1000 miles ago so that seems like a good sign. The level is however at the very top of the range on the stick. I think I read somewhere it should be in the middle, not over. But I'm not taking that too seriously.

Master Tech recommended I drive it for awhile make notes, and then bring it back if there are any troubles. Well...

What is the checklist/process of elimination? How does one go about diagnosing this? I think the gas is good. Shell 91 non-ethanol. Could a delayed valve job be the culprit? What would a mechanic do to diagnose the problem? Maybe it just needs a tune up! I'm curious about a list of things it could be or the typical process of elimination before I get into the process (possible nightmare) of chasing (a ghost) this problem down. Thanks all.

Kevin

kevinr1247

totally hear what you're saying...

rusnak

Kevin, just drive it not full out. Put in some fresh gas and the knock will be most likely gone.

dshepp806

Kevin,

Just go with the data presented to you....forget about any clashing or historical/past diatribes (and, for sure, they've existed).

I can assure you that many people here have a wealth of knowledge,..some work in their garages,..others do it for a living...take a holistic approach, as there's lots of data to consume.

The use of the term "knock" will certainly raise some eyes (in a VERY cautious fashion).....As Ed had previously suggested, we may want get a better description of this (and conditions). As well, as Rusnak suggested, ensure you're starting with some stock settings.

Surely someone here will chime about the conditions created when removing a cat from a stock (chip included) condition......clearly, Steve Wong has different setups for with or without a cat so I assume conditions are different.

Tell us MORE of this "knock", please.

BEST!

Doyle

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Have Tim @ Master Tech make sure there are no vacuum leaks in the intake system as that will make the engine detonate from a overly lean fuel mixture.

kevinr1247

Doyle, Thanks for the encouragement. Absolutely, I know that there's ton's of information out there and this topic has probably been talked out many times over. So I know some are saying "holy s&*t here we go again, it's running lean!"

Anyway, I just hope to learn all I can so I can talk to someone like Tim semi-intelligently 'cause I wanna resolve issues fast....hopefully. And I've gotten some great diagnostic information that I'll post shortly. Categorizing information in another way....like a 911 Wiki, and getting away from discussion boards that you have to trudge through is a thought. I'm sure it evolve really fast. And the rennlist discussions could serve as a forum for selecting/developing good information for the Wiki. Just a thought.

Okay the knock...it's not something that I've actively encouraged out of the engine. In a 1000 miles I've driven the car twice (okay three times) I've been accelerating up a twisty hill and about 4000-4500 rpm a faint knock begins that increases in intensity and speed as I accelerate. Then I back off the pedal and think to myself, "the boys at rennlist will sure as hell know what the problem is," or as we say in academia as not to offend any overly sensitive faculty or students, "what the challenge will be." So that's the knocker in the nutshell. The chip is on the way, and I'm anxious to install it. But first some important details, like the knock, and chopping of that bastard E.T.'s head. E.T. did not go home! He went to g&**&^m Stuttgart!

I'm in the general area of the next steps. Good info all around and helpful folks. When I get the girl feelin' better, I'll post some sweet pics that'll blow your mind and make some of you way jealous! Kevin

Ed Hughes

That does sound like detonation.

whalebird

Good spark plugs? Right heat range? I think a major service is in order from a qualified shop.

kevinr1247

I agree it couldn't hurt. It was also suggested that I try an injector cleaner, BG 44k, to clean some business out. I know that the car was sitting all winter, perhaps longer.

kevinr1247

So, knock solved. Turns out I don't know a knock from a rattle! But hey, I'm learning.

The dudes in Bend diagnosed it in 15 minutes. Turns out there is something called a "shift coupler" that connects to the transmission linkage. Apparently it can wear after 100k miles and rattle (I still think it's a knock). But in my case it seemed to be somewhat intermittent and only under certain conditions, as described. One clue Tim noted was that when he let of the throttle after triggering the rattle, the rattle would continue...ruling out detonation. Smart fellers over there.

Now onto other stuff without the worries of engine damage. It was a blistering ride home through Prineville, John Day, up to Ukiah, then home....150 miles of twisties and flat out straights. Thanks for the feedback everyone.