Vented Battery?
11-03-2002, 11:38 AM
#16
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Speedracer and Roland:
Roland...I have never seen ...as stock from the factory...a torsion bar car ( pre-89) with a vent tube. The latest cars ( 986/996 do have this, but never on an old car).
Speedracer....you asked for info and you the answers were clear...you can either go with a standard , wet battery, with a vent tube attached, or you can go with gel type ( Optima) or Dry-cell type, either of which don't vent. Also, the Interstate 48/91 was given as a reasonable , high quality regular "wet batery ( and alows use of a vent)..and if you checked into it, you would have noticed it has the little "foot" lip on the case bottom already molded-in.. that allows you to use the hold-down provided by the factory....however at a location slightly toward the rear of the car ( battery is shorter than OEM huge size 49). Porsche conveniently provides three such holes for three different battery sizes...All for about $75 to $100.
So...why do you feel you had to go back to the dealer for the overpriced unit ?? <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />
---Wil Ferch
Roland...I have never seen ...as stock from the factory...a torsion bar car ( pre-89) with a vent tube. The latest cars ( 986/996 do have this, but never on an old car).
Speedracer....you asked for info and you the answers were clear...you can either go with a standard , wet battery, with a vent tube attached, or you can go with gel type ( Optima) or Dry-cell type, either of which don't vent. Also, the Interstate 48/91 was given as a reasonable , high quality regular "wet batery ( and alows use of a vent)..and if you checked into it, you would have noticed it has the little "foot" lip on the case bottom already molded-in.. that allows you to use the hold-down provided by the factory....however at a location slightly toward the rear of the car ( battery is shorter than OEM huge size 49). Porsche conveniently provides three such holes for three different battery sizes...All for about $75 to $100.
So...why do you feel you had to go back to the dealer for the overpriced unit ?? <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />
---Wil Ferch
11-03-2002, 11:44 AM
#17
I have also installed a vent thru the existing floor plug for the interstate in my '76 C3, no factory vent even w/ the oem battery.
Over the years the worst battery in terms of longevity was a factory 928 battery that I used back in the early '80s. It only lasted 2 yrs despite care on my part to keep it maintained in the off months. The Interstates seem to last a loooong time.
Over the years the worst battery in terms of longevity was a factory 928 battery that I used back in the early '80s. It only lasted 2 yrs despite care on my part to keep it maintained in the off months. The Interstates seem to last a loooong time.
11-07-2002, 08:29 AM
#18
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Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hello
Sorry for delay due some viruses.
Since the battery design was changed from hardrubber- to plastic-case in the mid 60´s they have a seperate vent channel with tube on the Porsche cars.
All post 68 911, 964, 993 and 928 came with a venttube fittet from the factory (The 914/924/944/968 venting is a own story).
Tough the Battery from 1986 on are the new maintaince free design who will not vent gases under normal conditons but if you overcharge them ( or due a alternator/regulator malfunction ) they will also produce gas ( mostly H² wich is explosive ).
The factory vent tube is a PVC tube looking very similar to the tubes used from the wash/wipe system ( On SC it is the same material on the late 3,2 the washer tubes where changed to the high pressure units )and to make it even worser the tube goes trough the trunkwall beside them as well.
There is some confusion as the parts will not show up in the spare parts catalouge and isn´t explecit mentioned in the workshop manuals.
( However you will find a picture showing the battery with venttube attached ).
If you would like to shop the parts at a OPC and he don´t know where to locate the part numbers then have him look at the 959 or the 968 battery section
. the 959 has a small venting catch& recondensation canister wich is a good investment for race applications ( costs where 4$ ).
Moment:
959 611 115 00 vent canister ~ 4$
893 915 507 00 connection elbow on battery ( All 68-97 ) 0,3$
477 915 505 venttube 0,3$/m
( prices are some 2 years old )
Some batterys need a retangular connector with a small canister. Those are VW/Audi parts ( mostly to find on Turbos with the battery under the rear seat ). The cannister helps keeping ffluid in the battery under hard cornering.
One reason is that such things are so "basic" and "logical" for a car mechanic that you can say its base knowledge on working with batterys.
In germany every battery in a enclosed camber must be ventet to the outside and if not the TÜV would have draged the ears from the constructor/manufactor ( They would have pulled the ABE and informed the KBA so tha manufactor had some big & expensive trouble ( This service is done by laywers in the US ).
Even today sometimes you will see TÜV will put cars temporarly out from traffic becourse some one installed a sperate battery for his "bomm boom stereo" into the trunk from his car and didn´t ventet the battery or sometimes even didn´t fixed them. ( In germany we have to show up at the TÜV biannually, on that time the TÜV usually should check every time if your battery sits correct ( not lose ) and has a venttube if needed )
The tube seemed mostly to get removed by someone who changeed the battery ( by pulling the battery with the tube and don´t pay attention or not knowing anything, when the tube is pulled trough the rubbergrommet you need some time to "fix" that ) or is sometimes still around but hiden behind the carpet, the electric fuse board, rolled into the wireloom or stuffed into the corner behind the post from the ground cable. ( Been there to often )
Once pulled you need to remove the washerbottle to renew the tube correctly.
The tube is runing downwards from the battery making a slight slope and then runs upwards over the battery trough the sidewall.
The reason is that the slope will recondensate the ventet gases and if you are a mechanic doing your regular maintaince you can see if the battery vents more gas then uasuall and needs a refill or you know that you have to check the regulator for proper work.
( however maintaince shedule says: Check the battery level in each sperate chamber )
This trick was very helpfull with the 69-73 twin battery versions. A other reason for the long venttube is that you can leave it attached when you pull the battery.
So if you don´t find the tube blame one from the jerks who owned the car before performing poor homework or some mechanics out there who don´t deserve to work on anything more then wipe the shopfloors ( my feeling is that to much from them are allowed to work on more then there own cars or lawnmowers )
Porsche OEM batterys had been/are manufactored from Hoeppecke, Varta, Sonnenschein, Deta wich are also supplier from Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW.
The Porsche Batterys are mostly Hoppecke wich are a very clever internall design some 10% lighter then comperable performing batterys. They have a built in recondensation labarynth system but still a post for the venttube.
One problem from Porsche is that they have only one battery for all situations while Mercedes ships different batterys divided by clima zones.
The battery for Arizona/California will perform good in a Alaska ( vice vera ).
From my Point of view as mechanic the Porsche battery failure rate is very similar to most other brands and 3-5 years are the average dutytime some batterys are exceding that time.
Batterys used in daily drivers hold much longer then used in the garage queen cars. This is similar on Ferraris, Mercedes, VW......
Batterys used in high shock/vibration circumstances ( lowerd, hard cars, rallye/race ) will not achive same duty cycles like in better shock damped situations. You can shop special vibration proof batterys ( like used in HD Diesel applications ) but they wight more and cost more then a comperable car battery and those batterys don´t like long off-duty cycles.
On "race" cars you go with gel batterys or special lighter constructions ( like that said Hoppeke ) and renew them regulary ( If you can´t afford that you better stop dreaming )
Now next points:
You can shop any other battery as long it has the same size. Even higher profile Catapillar batterys will fit if you use a rubber +post protector from a earlyer 911.
The 911 SC came stock with a 66AH battery but versions with AC, cold climate, gas heater and all 87-89 3,2 came with a 88AH version. 964 had 75 AH versions wich also fits 911.
Base 911 2,7 and Clubsports had a 45AH sometimes a 54AH battery. RS came with 36 AH.
You will find that each battery size has a suiting hole to mount the suiting hold down, tough some batterys have the same amperage but not the same case so you will have to produce a own hold down clamp. ( or visit the next junk yard looking for suiting Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, BMW versions )
For the 36AH SCRS versions was a clamp aviable with could hold a VW plasticwasher fluid bottle ahead from the battery.
Fiting the 88 AH battery into the "spot" is a tricky thing and on every 45AH on battery you have to tillt them so much that they can spill fliud trough the venthole so have that pluged or insert the venttube ( mentioned abouve ).
There are some closed battery versions aviable from Bosch ( Black line ) , Varta ( Darkblue line ) and other manucatorers aswell ( GM Delco f.e. ). Those batterys will also work upside down and will not vent under any circumstances.
Those are first choice batterys. But they will not live longer then a normal maintaince free battery and while a normal battery show the age by geting tired ( so you are alarmed to renew them ) the other type will stop duty in a very short prewarning time.
Here in germany the costs are that you can get such a battery for the same money like Porsche is asking for there battery. Tough if you shop the OEM battery via a other source and don´t care for the Porsche script on it then you save some 25%.
Grüsse
A link <a href="http://www.hoppecke.de/index.php?vid=enan" target="_blank">http://www.hoppecke.de/index.php?vid=enan</a>
Sorry for delay due some viruses.
Since the battery design was changed from hardrubber- to plastic-case in the mid 60´s they have a seperate vent channel with tube on the Porsche cars.
All post 68 911, 964, 993 and 928 came with a venttube fittet from the factory (The 914/924/944/968 venting is a own story).
Tough the Battery from 1986 on are the new maintaince free design who will not vent gases under normal conditons but if you overcharge them ( or due a alternator/regulator malfunction ) they will also produce gas ( mostly H² wich is explosive ).
The factory vent tube is a PVC tube looking very similar to the tubes used from the wash/wipe system ( On SC it is the same material on the late 3,2 the washer tubes where changed to the high pressure units )and to make it even worser the tube goes trough the trunkwall beside them as well.
There is some confusion as the parts will not show up in the spare parts catalouge and isn´t explecit mentioned in the workshop manuals.
( However you will find a picture showing the battery with venttube attached ).
If you would like to shop the parts at a OPC and he don´t know where to locate the part numbers then have him look at the 959 or the 968 battery section
. the 959 has a small venting catch& recondensation canister wich is a good investment for race applications ( costs where 4$ ).Moment:
959 611 115 00 vent canister ~ 4$
893 915 507 00 connection elbow on battery ( All 68-97 ) 0,3$
477 915 505 venttube 0,3$/m
( prices are some 2 years old )
Some batterys need a retangular connector with a small canister. Those are VW/Audi parts ( mostly to find on Turbos with the battery under the rear seat ). The cannister helps keeping ffluid in the battery under hard cornering.
One reason is that such things are so "basic" and "logical" for a car mechanic that you can say its base knowledge on working with batterys.
In germany every battery in a enclosed camber must be ventet to the outside and if not the TÜV would have draged the ears from the constructor/manufactor ( They would have pulled the ABE and informed the KBA so tha manufactor had some big & expensive trouble ( This service is done by laywers in the US
). Even today sometimes you will see TÜV will put cars temporarly out from traffic becourse some one installed a sperate battery for his "bomm boom stereo" into the trunk from his car and didn´t ventet the battery or sometimes even didn´t fixed them. ( In germany we have to show up at the TÜV biannually, on that time the TÜV usually should check every time if your battery sits correct ( not lose ) and has a venttube if needed )
The tube seemed mostly to get removed by someone who changeed the battery ( by pulling the battery with the tube and don´t pay attention or not knowing anything, when the tube is pulled trough the rubbergrommet you need some time to "fix" that ) or is sometimes still around but hiden behind the carpet, the electric fuse board, rolled into the wireloom or stuffed into the corner behind the post from the ground cable. ( Been there to often )
Once pulled you need to remove the washerbottle to renew the tube correctly.
The tube is runing downwards from the battery making a slight slope and then runs upwards over the battery trough the sidewall.
The reason is that the slope will recondensate the ventet gases and if you are a mechanic doing your regular maintaince you can see if the battery vents more gas then uasuall and needs a refill or you know that you have to check the regulator for proper work.
( however maintaince shedule says: Check the battery level in each sperate chamber )
This trick was very helpfull with the 69-73 twin battery versions. A other reason for the long venttube is that you can leave it attached when you pull the battery.
So if you don´t find the tube blame one from the jerks who owned the car before performing poor homework or some mechanics out there who don´t deserve to work on anything more then wipe the shopfloors
( my feeling is that to much from them are allowed to work on more then there own cars or lawnmowers )Porsche OEM batterys had been/are manufactored from Hoeppecke, Varta, Sonnenschein, Deta wich are also supplier from Mercedes, BMW, Audi, VW.
The Porsche Batterys are mostly Hoppecke wich are a very clever internall design some 10% lighter then comperable performing batterys. They have a built in recondensation labarynth system but still a post for the venttube.
One problem from Porsche is that they have only one battery for all situations while Mercedes ships different batterys divided by clima zones.
The battery for Arizona/California will perform good in a Alaska ( vice vera ).
From my Point of view as mechanic the Porsche battery failure rate is very similar to most other brands and 3-5 years are the average dutytime some batterys are exceding that time.
Batterys used in daily drivers hold much longer then used in the garage queen cars. This is similar on Ferraris, Mercedes, VW......
Batterys used in high shock/vibration circumstances ( lowerd, hard cars, rallye/race ) will not achive same duty cycles like in better shock damped situations. You can shop special vibration proof batterys ( like used in HD Diesel applications ) but they wight more and cost more then a comperable car battery and those batterys don´t like long off-duty cycles.
On "race" cars you go with gel batterys or special lighter constructions ( like that said Hoppeke ) and renew them regulary ( If you can´t afford that you better stop dreaming )
Now next points:
You can shop any other battery as long it has the same size. Even higher profile Catapillar batterys will fit if you use a rubber +post protector from a earlyer 911.
The 911 SC came stock with a 66AH battery but versions with AC, cold climate, gas heater and all 87-89 3,2 came with a 88AH version. 964 had 75 AH versions wich also fits 911.
Base 911 2,7 and Clubsports had a 45AH sometimes a 54AH battery. RS came with 36 AH.
You will find that each battery size has a suiting hole to mount the suiting hold down, tough some batterys have the same amperage but not the same case so you will have to produce a own hold down clamp. ( or visit the next junk yard looking for suiting Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, BMW versions
)For the 36AH SCRS versions was a clamp aviable with could hold a VW plasticwasher fluid bottle ahead from the battery.
Fiting the 88 AH battery into the "spot" is a tricky thing and on every 45AH on battery you have to tillt them so much that they can spill fliud trough the venthole so have that pluged or insert the venttube ( mentioned abouve ).
There are some closed battery versions aviable from Bosch ( Black line ) , Varta ( Darkblue line ) and other manucatorers aswell ( GM Delco f.e. ). Those batterys will also work upside down and will not vent under any circumstances.
Those are first choice batterys. But they will not live longer then a normal maintaince free battery and while a normal battery show the age by geting tired ( so you are alarmed to renew them ) the other type will stop duty in a very short prewarning time.
Here in germany the costs are that you can get such a battery for the same money like Porsche is asking for there battery. Tough if you shop the OEM battery via a other source and don´t care for the Porsche script on it then you save some 25%.
Grüsse
A link <a href="http://www.hoppecke.de/index.php?vid=enan" target="_blank">http://www.hoppecke.de/index.php?vid=enan</a>
11-07-2002, 02:15 PM
#19
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Roland,
Wow, great information. You answered just about every question I had regarding the battery in my 911. I have just a few more if you'd be so kind.
First, as you mentioned, Porsche originally fitted the 88 amp battery to my '86 911 Turbo. Because of the difficulty in getting that size to fit I would like to use the next smaller size case--I believe either a 66 amp or 70 amp. Will this substitution have any adverse effects on the car? Was the original 88 amp battery just overkill, or was there some need in these older cars? Considering that Porsche now uses 60, 70 and 80 amp batteries in cars with much more electronic equipment, I would think going to a 66 or 70 amp battery would be fine. I am, however, a real novice when it comes to things electronic and would appreciate your thoughts.
Second, I would like to change over to a sealed battery that uses the original mounting hardware. I have located a Sonnenschein agm battery--the DF115 I think--that has the approximate dimensions for the middle hold down bracket. The battery is only rated at 50 amps though. Will this be adequate for my car? I have only the usual standard equipment and don't use the A/C often.
My understanding is that as long as the car is running, the alternator supplies the power for all accessories, and that the battery is only used for starting the car and running any electrical equipment while the car is off. The amperage rating of the battery then only becomes significant when considering starting requirements, i.e. cold weather, compression ratio, oil viscosity, etc., and energy draw while the car is off. If I am correct, would a 50 amp battery have sufficient starting power for my car under normal circumstances?
Thanks. I appreciate all the help that you and other members of this board have given.
Chris Reed
1986 911 Turbo
Wow, great information. You answered just about every question I had regarding the battery in my 911. I have just a few more if you'd be so kind.
First, as you mentioned, Porsche originally fitted the 88 amp battery to my '86 911 Turbo. Because of the difficulty in getting that size to fit I would like to use the next smaller size case--I believe either a 66 amp or 70 amp. Will this substitution have any adverse effects on the car? Was the original 88 amp battery just overkill, or was there some need in these older cars? Considering that Porsche now uses 60, 70 and 80 amp batteries in cars with much more electronic equipment, I would think going to a 66 or 70 amp battery would be fine. I am, however, a real novice when it comes to things electronic and would appreciate your thoughts.
Second, I would like to change over to a sealed battery that uses the original mounting hardware. I have located a Sonnenschein agm battery--the DF115 I think--that has the approximate dimensions for the middle hold down bracket. The battery is only rated at 50 amps though. Will this be adequate for my car? I have only the usual standard equipment and don't use the A/C often.
My understanding is that as long as the car is running, the alternator supplies the power for all accessories, and that the battery is only used for starting the car and running any electrical equipment while the car is off. The amperage rating of the battery then only becomes significant when considering starting requirements, i.e. cold weather, compression ratio, oil viscosity, etc., and energy draw while the car is off. If I am correct, would a 50 amp battery have sufficient starting power for my car under normal circumstances?
Thanks. I appreciate all the help that you and other members of this board have given.
Chris Reed
1986 911 Turbo
11-09-2002, 07:29 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Roland,
Thanks for all the information. I always thought that one of those tubes in my trunk was for the vent, but I can't find the end. Anyway, I bought the Porsche battery from the dealer, but I didn't get the chance to install it yet (for a variety of reasons). Now I'm back at school, and the SC is in my parents' garage 300 miles away (I have the 993 with me).
My question is: does the Porsche battery I bought require a vent? The dealer told me it does not, and it appears to be sealed.
Thanks for all the information. I always thought that one of those tubes in my trunk was for the vent, but I can't find the end. Anyway, I bought the Porsche battery from the dealer, but I didn't get the chance to install it yet (for a variety of reasons). Now I'm back at school, and the SC is in my parents' garage 300 miles away (I have the 993 with me).
My question is: does the Porsche battery I bought require a vent? The dealer told me it does not, and it appears to be sealed.
11-10-2002, 04:28 AM
#21
Burning Brakes
The (vented) battery in my 91 BMW lasted 9 1/2 years. It may have still been good when I replaced it. The failure to turn over turned out to be a blown head gasket that leaked coolant into the cylinders, which didn't want to compress.
