any club sport owners? or just CS Fans out there!
02-19-2002, 03:00 PM
#1
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any club sport owners? or just CS Fans out there!
from my displayed name you could probably tell that I have a Club Sport. Mine is Diamond Blue and I bought last year from the original owner. I live in So Cal and know of 2 others in the area and a couple more in US. From trying to secure a couple of names for this board, I found a couple of club sport versions already taken. I hope they were related to 911 Club Sport.
With only 28 delivered to NA from 88-89 it's a small number. I know there are more ROW production though!
With only 28 delivered to NA from 88-89 it's a small number. I know there are more ROW production though!
02-19-2002, 03:39 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
Sweet car. Eventhough they get a bad rap, I like the E30 M3s. I'd like one in the future, but for know will have to make due with my 84 911. Oh darn 
I don't blame you for snatching up the CS.
I don't blame you for snatching up the CS.
02-19-2002, 09:11 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
carrera51,
The reason the Club Sport got a bad rap was because "The Media".
A lot of the US market at the time was all about the image of Porsche and yuppiedom that was sooo prevelant in the late 80's and early 90's. I have a lot of the old articles and basically they questioned why someone would spend the same amount of money and not get air conditioning, sunroof and no power windows....
I would bet that if PAG came out with a 911 Club Sport now that Porschephiles would snap it up.
Furthermore, in Europe they have a lot more respect for the car. Just check out the project Club Sport in Porsche World Magazine or in Evo, where the Club Sport was named one of the 10 best Porsche's of all time!
The reason the Club Sport got a bad rap was because "The Media".
A lot of the US market at the time was all about the image of Porsche and yuppiedom that was sooo prevelant in the late 80's and early 90's. I have a lot of the old articles and basically they questioned why someone would spend the same amount of money and not get air conditioning, sunroof and no power windows....
I would bet that if PAG came out with a 911 Club Sport now that Porschephiles would snap it up.
Furthermore, in Europe they have a lot more respect for the car. Just check out the project Club Sport in Porsche World Magazine or in Evo, where the Club Sport was named one of the 10 best Porsche's of all time!
02-19-2002, 09:14 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
carrera51,
The reason the Club Sport got a bad rap was because "The Media".
A lot of the US market at the time was all about the image of Porsche and yuppiedom that was sooo prevelant in the late 80's and early 90's. I have a lot of the old articles and basically they questioned why someone would spend the same amount of money and not get air conditioning, sunroof and no power windows....
I would bet that if PAG came out with a 911 Club Sport now that Porschephiles would snap it up.
Furthermore, in Europe they have a lot more respect for the car. Just check out the project Club Sport in Porsche World Magazine or in Evo, where the Club Sport was named one of the 10 best Porsche's of all time!
The reason the Club Sport got a bad rap was because "The Media".
A lot of the US market at the time was all about the image of Porsche and yuppiedom that was sooo prevelant in the late 80's and early 90's. I have a lot of the old articles and basically they questioned why someone would spend the same amount of money and not get air conditioning, sunroof and no power windows....
I would bet that if PAG came out with a 911 Club Sport now that Porschephiles would snap it up.
Furthermore, in Europe they have a lot more respect for the car. Just check out the project Club Sport in Porsche World Magazine or in Evo, where the Club Sport was named one of the 10 best Porsche's of all time!
02-20-2002, 12:52 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
I wrote an article about the 911 Clubsport for the May 1988 Porsche Panorama, that may be of interest to you. You may want to try to get the CLUBSPORT-Version INFORMATION TECHNIK,Porsche publication number WKD 494 021, which may be still available at your Porsche dealer parts department. My article is also repeated in the PCA publication Up-fixin der Porsche, Volume VIII. Good luck with your great car, the press seems to condemn lightweight versions for some reason unknown to me.
02-20-2002, 04:02 PM
#6
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Thread Starter
Cupcar,
Thanks a lot....great stable of cars! What is the easiest way to access the articles?
I think the media/press has a very skewed way of looking and judging cars, but I think things have changed a lot in the past 10+ years. Although nobody drove the e46 m3 CSL that was revealed a couple months ago, the press (at least that I read) went crazy over it. I think we also need to clarify the source US media or European. As Porsche World and Evo both covered....the Club Sport was one of the top 911's ever produced.
Weight saving measures , modified DME unit, sport suspension and seats are the big differences that everyone can read about. My sources tell me that Porsche picks and sets aside the top engines and places them in special production cars. I know the engine was blueprinted, but when I compare my car to a coupe 89 (which I have done) it seems like a lot more was done than that.
I hoe to never have to sell it!
Thanks a lot....great stable of cars! What is the easiest way to access the articles?
I think the media/press has a very skewed way of looking and judging cars, but I think things have changed a lot in the past 10+ years. Although nobody drove the e46 m3 CSL that was revealed a couple months ago, the press (at least that I read) went crazy over it. I think we also need to clarify the source US media or European. As Porsche World and Evo both covered....the Club Sport was one of the top 911's ever produced.
Weight saving measures , modified DME unit, sport suspension and seats are the big differences that everyone can read about. My sources tell me that Porsche picks and sets aside the top engines and places them in special production cars. I know the engine was blueprinted, but when I compare my car to a coupe 89 (which I have done) it seems like a lot more was done than that.
I hoe to never have to sell it!
02-20-2002, 05:02 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
That's actually my dream list of cars, I have to change that, you're the second to take seriously.
Go to <a href="http://www.My-Porsche.com" target="_blank">www.My-Porsche.com</a> they are a dealer who sells technical books they have the factory tech book I sited for $8.55, very worthwhile for you. The "UP Fixin" is available from the Porsche Club of America main office, but my article adds nothing to the factory book except some extra text.
Go to <a href="http://www.My-Porsche.com" target="_blank">www.My-Porsche.com</a> they are a dealer who sells technical books they have the factory tech book I sited for $8.55, very worthwhile for you. The "UP Fixin" is available from the Porsche Club of America main office, but my article adds nothing to the factory book except some extra text.
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02-20-2002, 06:39 PM
#8
there should be a club sport version of every p-car. Just like one can get a toyota pick-up completely stripped of amenities, one should be able to get a completely stripped 911. it is evil to equip base models w/ tons of options, (raising the base price), while thereafter offering strippers at an even greater price due to the demand created by not enough of what people really want. it's satanic.
02-20-2002, 08:35 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
t.p.,
I totally agree...I know you can order sunroof delete as an option as well as a/c. If someone is really serious about using for racing/track fun then I am not sure if this is the best way to go. What I like about the CS is the little things they did to save weight. Although some sound crazy, I like the fact that they were done by the factory and not by an individual. For example, one could remove the back seats and put in a carpeted storage compartment like the CS or take out the passenger side visor...but it's just not the same. Every time I do a side by side comparison to regular carrera I find something different.
I totally agree...I know you can order sunroof delete as an option as well as a/c. If someone is really serious about using for racing/track fun then I am not sure if this is the best way to go. What I like about the CS is the little things they did to save weight. Although some sound crazy, I like the fact that they were done by the factory and not by an individual. For example, one could remove the back seats and put in a carpeted storage compartment like the CS or take out the passenger side visor...but it's just not the same. Every time I do a side by side comparison to regular carrera I find something different.
02-20-2002, 09:16 PM
#10
88clbsp0rt: You have a very rare car! Fantastic color too! That's definitely a one of a kind.
I remember reading an article done in 1988 (Road & Track?) that did a comparision between a US Club Sport and the Corvette that was out at the time. (I believe the 'vette had about 245 hp that year and the test car came with the optional handling package.) They did three comparisions between the cars. On the track, street driving and slalom course (if I remember correctly).
They intially hated the Club Sport because they didn't know how to drive a 911 fast. The Corvette was a no brainer to drive for the test drivers and it waxed the 911 initially. Then they realized it took a bunch more skill to drive the 911 fast and the comparision ended up much closer. The mag still ended up picking the Corvette as the winner because it was easier to drive fast (with little learning curve), had all the amenities that you could ever need in a sports car and was half as expensive. They did finally admit the 911 took skill and patience and was much more rewarding to drive fast when you got it right.
These guys totally missed the boat and I had a good laugh at that test. I would love to have a mint, round tailight 4+3 '88 'vette in my driveway, but I would pass that up a million times over to have a '88 Club Sport instead.
I agree too that if Porsche offered a stripped down, light weight 996 with even 10 more hp, the enthusiasts would snap up as many as they could build.
I remember reading an article done in 1988 (Road & Track?) that did a comparision between a US Club Sport and the Corvette that was out at the time. (I believe the 'vette had about 245 hp that year and the test car came with the optional handling package.) They did three comparisions between the cars. On the track, street driving and slalom course (if I remember correctly).
They intially hated the Club Sport because they didn't know how to drive a 911 fast. The Corvette was a no brainer to drive for the test drivers and it waxed the 911 initially. Then they realized it took a bunch more skill to drive the 911 fast and the comparision ended up much closer. The mag still ended up picking the Corvette as the winner because it was easier to drive fast (with little learning curve), had all the amenities that you could ever need in a sports car and was half as expensive. They did finally admit the 911 took skill and patience and was much more rewarding to drive fast when you got it right.
These guys totally missed the boat and I had a good laugh at that test. I would love to have a mint, round tailight 4+3 '88 'vette in my driveway, but I would pass that up a million times over to have a '88 Club Sport instead.
I agree too that if Porsche offered a stripped down, light weight 996 with even 10 more hp, the enthusiasts would snap up as many as they could build.
02-21-2002, 11:53 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
The problem is not Porsche of Germany it's our American importer Porsche Cars North America that is the problem and in turn "we" are also the problem. PCNA decides what they want to import into the country and buyers are stuck with it. PCNA has determined what they believe to be the best way to sell cars here and profit their shareholders.
The US market loves luxury items and those of us writing in this thread do not necessarily want that. The problem though is people like us have not bought enough cars to cater to. Believe me if we did, the cars would be there. After I wrote an article about the 1988 Clubsport for an enthusiast readership, hoping to generate interest in lightweight cars, Porsche only sold a very few Clubsports. People in the US just don't want these cars in a volume that's worth while to the importer. Look at many of the posts on the 996 board about what to order in the cars. All the discussion is about luxury items, colors, stereos, electronic assists etc. Whether this situation has grown out of the market naturally or has been created by advertising and the automotive press is an open question.
In Europe many of the options that we have as standard such as A/C, Sunroof etc. are free standing options for the buyer. The US market has never received the true lightweight Carrera RS cars. When the RS America was offered here most of them were sold with the A/C, suntop and stereo added back as options. The GT2 is equipped with bucket seats in Europe but regular sports seats in the USA. This probably because when PCNA fitted bucket seats into the 964 Speedster they had to listen to customer complaints about them. Some were actually removed because of the complaints. My next door neighbor went out of his way not to have bucket seats in his 964 Speedster-which he drives every 6 months. You would think a person who only drives a car every 6 months would want something to make the experience as unique as possible! Currently in Europe fiberglas bucket seats, deleted rear seating and a special sports suspension beyond the M030 sports option we get here are available to buyers-this would make a nice clubsport package if you deleted the suntop wouldn't it? It would be easy to do but it's not done because of lack of demand. That's what I mean by "we" are the problem. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
The US market loves luxury items and those of us writing in this thread do not necessarily want that. The problem though is people like us have not bought enough cars to cater to. Believe me if we did, the cars would be there. After I wrote an article about the 1988 Clubsport for an enthusiast readership, hoping to generate interest in lightweight cars, Porsche only sold a very few Clubsports. People in the US just don't want these cars in a volume that's worth while to the importer. Look at many of the posts on the 996 board about what to order in the cars. All the discussion is about luxury items, colors, stereos, electronic assists etc. Whether this situation has grown out of the market naturally or has been created by advertising and the automotive press is an open question.
In Europe many of the options that we have as standard such as A/C, Sunroof etc. are free standing options for the buyer. The US market has never received the true lightweight Carrera RS cars. When the RS America was offered here most of them were sold with the A/C, suntop and stereo added back as options. The GT2 is equipped with bucket seats in Europe but regular sports seats in the USA. This probably because when PCNA fitted bucket seats into the 964 Speedster they had to listen to customer complaints about them. Some were actually removed because of the complaints. My next door neighbor went out of his way not to have bucket seats in his 964 Speedster-which he drives every 6 months. You would think a person who only drives a car every 6 months would want something to make the experience as unique as possible! Currently in Europe fiberglas bucket seats, deleted rear seating and a special sports suspension beyond the M030 sports option we get here are available to buyers-this would make a nice clubsport package if you deleted the suntop wouldn't it? It would be easy to do but it's not done because of lack of demand. That's what I mean by "we" are the problem. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
02-21-2002, 02:01 PM
#12
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Thread Starter
Cupcarcould not have said it better! I did not know about the different options only available in Europe. We truly do have different tastes here in the States. What is ironic is that I like the lightweight and unique features that the Club Sport has but I am considering buying a Cayenne. (not to replace the CS though)
I love different and unique cars that not everyone has (also have e30 M3 and Audi GT Coupe)
but have to admit that when I am with my wife, dog and young son not only do I have to drive the SUV, but don't really mind it for a change of pace. I would much rather be carving through the hills in malibu, cruising up the coast on PCH and having fun on the track. I guess for a 996 buyer, especially if it is their only ride, they want the best of both worlds and that is where the luxury options come in.
Personally, I never open the sunroof on my M3 and when I had an S4, same thing. The weight savings and rigidity gained with a sunroof delete is something I would lean toward. Myonly concern would be potential resale. I have found exactly what clubcar stated to be the case with not only the press, but many acclaimed "Porschephiles".
I enjoy talking and hearing about people with like tastes in cars. I was trying to find the Road and Track article with the Corvette and CS shootout and did find it on the archives of E-bay. I would love to get a copy of it to add to my collection of articles on CS. Make sure to check out Porsche World (UK Magazine) I believe they are still featuring a Club Sport Project Car.
I love different and unique cars that not everyone has (also have e30 M3 and Audi GT Coupe)
but have to admit that when I am with my wife, dog and young son not only do I have to drive the SUV, but don't really mind it for a change of pace. I would much rather be carving through the hills in malibu, cruising up the coast on PCH and having fun on the track. I guess for a 996 buyer, especially if it is their only ride, they want the best of both worlds and that is where the luxury options come in.
Personally, I never open the sunroof on my M3 and when I had an S4, same thing. The weight savings and rigidity gained with a sunroof delete is something I would lean toward. Myonly concern would be potential resale. I have found exactly what clubcar stated to be the case with not only the press, but many acclaimed "Porschephiles".
I enjoy talking and hearing about people with like tastes in cars. I was trying to find the Road and Track article with the Corvette and CS shootout and did find it on the archives of E-bay. I would love to get a copy of it to add to my collection of articles on CS. Make sure to check out Porsche World (UK Magazine) I believe they are still featuring a Club Sport Project Car.
02-21-2002, 03:27 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
I hate to say it but the RS America was several thousands of dollars-- less-- than a normal C2!!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
02-21-2002, 06:08 PM
#15
my bad. got confused w/ what they go for used. however, w/ regard to certain other makes (i.e. BMW and their lightweight M3 of previous generations) hasn't it been the case that they charge more? also, did the RS America sell for its sticker, or did it's low production #'s drive the sticker-price beyond the C2's? Anybody remember?