Mr. G

I know this is an apples to oranges type thing but many of you might have experience with these apples and oranges. I'm about ready to buy my first Porsche. I always wanted a 911 (pre-964). The 964-993-996 era didn't really do it for me looks wise. Then came the 997 which I like the looks of alot.

So if I could get a 997 for the same price as a nice late model 911 (87/88/89), I'd have a tough decision but I'd probably go with the 997 because it would be easier to drive. Again, I'm mainly going on aesthetics. Even the base models of these cars have more capability than I have ability. The only real factor for me other than the aesthetics are the maintenance costs, and this isn't a huge factor as this would be a weekend car for me.

So right now, it seems I can buy a pretty nice G50 911 for around $20K. These cars seem to be relatively easy to maintain, mostly mechanical and rather robust.

But it seems I can also buy a 997 with similar milage to a nice old 911 (60K) for around $40K.

So it would probably cost me $20K more for a 997 right now but that premium will continue to get smaller for a while.

I'm not in a huge hurry. I could wait a year or two (I've already waited about 35 years). So my question is, where do you think the price of a decent base model 997 will start to stabilize and when? My guess is that 2005/2006 base 997's will stabilize in the low $30s within a year or so.

Also, for those of you with some recent experience with both, how would you compare the annual maintenance/consumables of a 60,000 mile 997 with a 60,000 mile 911 if I were to drive it around 5K/year?

whalebird

Calling w00t...

ked

well, I'm glad you're not in a hurry.
'cause this thread could go on for awhile.
my take... don't make $$$ the focus of deciding to buy a Porsche - or even which Porsche.
use your ***, fingertips & emotions... hopefully not co-located.
good luck!

Mr. G

Fair enough. The thing is, I have waited this long so that I could buy my toy with cash and be able to take care of it properly. House, kid's education, retirement savings etc. got priority. I don't sleep well with debt. So now that I have the cash and I can pull the trigger, I'm looking for some input on how best to spend my finite amount of money. I've got around $20K now to spend. In a year or so I'll probably have $30K to spend. I don't think I ever want to spend more than low $30s on a weekend toy. I really like both the 911 and the 997 so that's why I'm throwing it out there for some input.

Tango635

The ideal thing is to drive both of them, then see which one pulls your heart's strings. If you're still undecided, then the safest route is to buy the nice 911. Not only have you got the money for it now, but it will not depreciate much in the next couple of months should you decide that you don't like it after-all. What ever car you buy, again going for the safest route which means protecting your investment, buy a car with history, one that has records that indicate the car is well maintained.

You might even consider joining your local PCA and hanging around there at one of the DE events. I am sure you will find folks willing to at least take you for a ride, if not drive, and tell you about their car. The PCA also sends out a magazine which has a cars classifieds, might be another place to look.

Good luck with your search.

joe1973

I second Tango. Take your time. Join a PCA club and listen, learn and enjoy discussions with members about their cars. New school vs old school? I can't decide myself so I always have both! Have a 73 911 and 996 GT3. Also had 993 and Cayman S. Here's where I do have a contentious view- don't start with a boxster or cayman as they really don't drive like any 911 of any vintage. Good luck and happy hunting for your porker.

Mr. G

I will be joining my local PCA soon. I'm a bit embarassed to join an owner's club without owning one but I'll get over it.

One thing I definitely want to do before I start my active hunt is drive a well sorted 915 transmission versus a well sorted G50. I've only driven a poorly sorted 915 (awful) and a 996 (which was very nice).

whalebird

I think PCA requires ownership. I may be wrong. None the less, PCA is a big resource for research and community involvement. Plan on getting there regardless of what you buy.
Being patient is the best thing. I do agree with the above: a 997 is on it's down swing in value, and will be for a while. An older air cooled car is as low as it will ever be in value.

Carlo_Carrera

911s and 997s feel very different. Drive them both and then buy the one you like the feel of the best.

joe1973

G- you can join a Porsche club without owning a car. We have several members at Connecticut Valley but whom I would imagine after a few months would have bought their cars to really fit in. In fact during these meetings there are always those looking to sell their cars and as soon as they know someone's looking they'll be all over you but in a non-pressure way or so one hopes.

yumyum1667

I know this sounds strange part part of the thrill of my 88 is the smell. It has that old school smell and not the new car smell. You just know you are in a classic even with a blindfold on.

Tango635

Completely agree, the smell is part of the "patina", don't you think? I have an 89 Carrera and an 88 BMW 635. They each have their own smell, but you can definitely tell you're in an old car...in a good sort of way.

Mr. G, don't be embarrassed. It took many of us a good while to get to owning one of these beautiful machines. So I think PCA members will receive you with a warm welcome. Before becoming an owner, almost everyone of us at one point thought, "one of these days I will..."

Makmov

It is something like the others have said, it something you just have to figure out for yourself. They all have there good and not so good points, and I wouldn't discount the 964-993.

I think you have already more or less seen bottom on these cars. I could be wrong but I think you are dreaming that 997s will hit bottom in the 30s. Maybe, but maybe for a Boxter.

It is the high tech electrical gizmos that is going to get you on the 997, and there is always the possiblity of a inter'shaft failure looming out there. otherwise there probably isn't a lot of geniune maintance cost difference.

And actually your maintance is like to be higher on 5k a year than if you just drive it all the time - maybe 10k or more.

There is a special membership if you don't have a car yet, but you also don't get all the benies.

If I had twenty to throw down on a car I guess I'd be looking at an SC or Carrera 911.

I think that you could find a good 964 for $20k but the cost of ownership is high on that car.

You are going to need $30k for a 993.

A 996-997 I just don't see it happening unless you steal a car and then it's probably not going to be a very nice car.

That's just my two cents worth anyway.

Yes, it's somthing that takes time. I wanted one forever, window shopped for five years, got serious and it was another couple months to land on a few cars and another month or so to actually get one.

clutch-monkey

exactly, have to try and figure out which one you would prefer to live with after you get over the buzz of the initial drive!

w00tPORSCHE

I was too tired to answer to this post. But then saw Whalebird's page....but how can I ignore it. Hence I decided to reply. Mr. G please be clear, I am new to 911 ownership. Just like you the exterior styling is what drew me to both the 911 and 997. Both have extremely reliable engines good for atleast 200K miles if well cared for. The 997.2 which I own is a precisely engineered instrument. Every little dab on the gas pedal (including the low end torque) or maneuvering of it's sublime steering at high speeds gives me the chills. The 3.2 on the other hand provides me that visceral, raw feel even when I am going at 40 miles/hr. There is very little that comes in between the car and driver bonding when I drive the classic. Not even airbags or power steering. The engine sound above 4500 RPM, the stunning build quality, the writhing steering wheel at higher speeds...what can I say.....

First lets talk 997: Although extremely rare, early model 997’s (called 997.1) had IMS (intermediate shaft failure) and RMS (rear main seal) issues. PASM (Porsche active suspension management) is reliable despite its complexity, but as cars get older, the active dampers may fail and that is an expensive repair bill. Other than that, the 997.1 has no specific issues. Hence I would suggest looking for 997’s from June ’06 or newer since there was a final change for the IMS starting from MY06. There is one big problem though. Even a base model ’05 Carrera with the 3.6 liter engine that is very lightly optioned that has around 50 K miles on the odo would cost you atleast 35K. I am not even talking about the Carrera S or Carrera4S that are equipped with the more powerful engines (3.8 liter) and brakes. You are looking at rear tires replacement every 10 to 12K miles which is the big ticket item other than routine yearly oil changes.

Your budget puts you out of reach for the second generation 997 (often mentioned as 997.2 which is what I own), which is from ’09 onwards. These cars have A91, DFI (direct fuel injection) engine, which eliminated the intermediate shaft (the timing gear is now driven directly by the camshaft drive) and RMS issues. Other changes including the new PDK transmission, touch screen nav and restyled rear lamps which now use LED instead of filament bulbs just to name a few. Even the base model second gen 997 is about 60K.

Everyone’s first 911 should be a manual transmission in my opinion (although mine was not), hence I would avoid a tiptronic transmission when you shop for 997.1 especially if it is a weekend car. In addition to the usual checks, a DME readout is crucial on 997.1 to detect the severity/frequency of engine over-revs. 997 is a modern day interpretation of a 993. They are fun, sophisticated, reliable and is easy to live with on a day to day basis. Although a base model Carrera is a great car, the Carrera S is certainly more fun and you get a lot more car for the extra $$. Get one that is a Carrera S made after June 2006, but your budget may be prohibitive.

Let’s talk 911 3.2/SC: Solid, reliable, affordable and perfect introduction to classic 911 character. It has all the looks/thrills (well almost) of the older 911s (dating back to first production years) without all the hassles that the initial model years had. Add to that you can even get an iconic targa version or make a statement by getting one with a whale tail rear spoiler. These are very easily serviceable and DIY'er friendly. Running costs should be fairly low and I am hoping that good condition cars are on the other side of the depreciation curve. To get a 911 in all original condition with a solid service history without a tired looking interior you are looking at 20 to 30K. Avoid the cars with the telephone dial wheels, get one that has original Fuch’s wheels. The G-50 cars always seem to command a premium price, but so did my 915 gearbox ’86 coupe. But I bought the car for it’s condition (which is what I cared about) and not for its mechanical specification. I am a newbie to this forum and even I get so mad when every single person searching for a 911 (me included) starts their introductory post with those famous lines: “ Hi all, I am looking to get a G-50 equipped 911 from ’87 to “89….” so you can imagine how some of the stalwarts who have 911-ness flowing in their arteries and veins feel. There are several threads on SC vs 3.2, G-50 vs 915 and since you have time in your hands drive as much as you can and decide for yourself. My vote would be for a 3.2 and withvyour budget you can get a mint condition car. Beware the HVAC system is mediocre at best on most of these cars.

CONCLUSION: If you had a higher budget and had told me that you wanted a daily driver for all year long then I would have had a hard time with my final suggestion. For a weekend driver, given your budget, it became a slam dunk for me ( I am not complaining that you made my life easy since I am dead tired as I just came back from work after working 16 straight hours without a break). Go do yourself a favor: Get the real driver’s car…the PORSCHE in the classic mould that wears Fuch’s wheels.

And Oh the smell of the hot air-cooled engine.....that unmistakable aroma. For a 911 purist, that is pure moksha...nothing strange about what your feeling yumyum. In fact it is strange that you think that your feelings for the smell is strange...well I think I'm now really tired and am not making any sense. So goodnight all....to be continued