1982 SC.....total restore
11-03-2010, 01:12 PM
#16
Race Car
A targa is little more than a cab in the sence of the inner rockers. I would want the strength there on a targa as a cab. I am not sure, but the factory would have applied the same strength to a cab, as a targa.
11-03-2010, 01:18 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
IIRC the cabrios had extra sheet metal welded onto the inner rockers from the factory - this would be one item of the transformation I would be particularly keen to check into.
If you have seen all the tranformation pics, then you will have a good idea of what you really have.
It does look to be a nice, clean Porsche in very good condition. You will likely have a nice ownership experience but you will always have a hard time to sell it. I would not go past mid- to high-teens at the most.
PPI is a must.
If you have seen all the tranformation pics, then you will have a good idea of what you really have.
It does look to be a nice, clean Porsche in very good condition. You will likely have a nice ownership experience but you will always have a hard time to sell it. I would not go past mid- to high-teens at the most.
PPI is a must.
Talk about liquidity....I tried to sell a '02 Expedition w/very low miles and pristine (gotta be huge (comparably) market for it) and got ZERO calls on it over 7 month period....and yes it was priced mid-range. So generally speaking, the market pretty much stinks for everything as far as I can tell.
11-03-2010, 02:09 PM
#18
Why would you want to buy this car?
If you want a turbo body cab, you'd be far better off IMHO just buying a real one. They're not that hard to find. Sure, it will cost more, but you'll be able to sell it when it's time to sell. This car will certainly be very hard to sell.
And the a/c issue will be addressed.
Since you asked ... I would NOT buy this car.
If you want a turbo body cab, you'd be far better off IMHO just buying a real one. They're not that hard to find. Sure, it will cost more, but you'll be able to sell it when it's time to sell. This car will certainly be very hard to sell.
And the a/c issue will be addressed.
Since you asked ... I would NOT buy this car.
11-03-2010, 02:21 PM
#19
Race Car
I am luke-warm on these cars. But...you have done a lot of research and are comfortable with what you want. I back your decision whatever it may be. I (as often the case) defer to race911 as he has seen most of the Porsche industry from every angle. My personal choice would be a coupe. Nothing against targa/cab cars.
Keep the threads coming Shannon. I like living vicariously.
Keep the threads coming Shannon. I like living vicariously.
11-03-2010, 02:32 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Why would you want to buy this car?
If you want a turbo body cab, you'd be far better off IMHO just buying a real one. They're not that hard to find. Sure, it will cost more, but you'll be able to sell it when it's time to sell. This car will certainly be very hard to sell.
And the a/c issue will be addressed.
Since you asked ... I would NOT buy this car.
If you want a turbo body cab, you'd be far better off IMHO just buying a real one. They're not that hard to find. Sure, it will cost more, but you'll be able to sell it when it's time to sell. This car will certainly be very hard to sell.
And the a/c issue will be addressed.
Since you asked ... I would NOT buy this car.
My rationale for buying conversion versus 930.
Putting liquidity aside for a moment and in simplistic form...
I believe I will lose money on EITHER purchase, therefore, its a matter of what cost level would I rather start with ? If I buy a 930 @ $30k and resell at some future date at 80% of 30k, I'm down 6k. If I buy a conversion at 18k and resell and some future date @ 80% of 20k, I'm down 3.6k. I drive like an old lady, therefore, a turbo means nothing to me....its the LOOK I'm after. Additionally, its my understanding that maintenance on a 911 is likley to be less than that of a 930....so, hypothetically, I lose less on both parts of the equation. Not trying to be **** about this, but thats just my financial background mentality.
11-03-2010, 02:44 PM
#21
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Why would you want to buy this car?
If you want a turbo body cab, you'd be far better off IMHO just buying a real one. They're not that hard to find. Sure, it will cost more, but you'll be able to sell it when it's time to sell. This car will certainly be very hard to sell.
And the a/c issue will be addressed.
If you want a turbo body cab, you'd be far better off IMHO just buying a real one. They're not that hard to find. Sure, it will cost more, but you'll be able to sell it when it's time to sell. This car will certainly be very hard to sell.
And the a/c issue will be addressed.
You (any of us) will have no easier of a time unloading one of these cars than the people trying to sell them now are having. One must factor in the emotional dividends driving an older 911 pays to truly quantify the ROI.
(I'm not in investments, I'm talking out of my a$$ but you get the point)If I had $15-18k to spend this looks like a very nice place to spend it assuming the quality in person is as nice as the pictures. And I personally see no reason to think you wouldn't get the same back out of it some years down the road.
11-03-2010, 02:49 PM
#23
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They sell Turbo Look cabs too! I say go for it if it is a good build and it would make you happy. It might take you a little bit to sell, but there is always someone out there for each car.
11-03-2010, 02:52 PM
#24
I appreciate/respect your opinion.
My rationale for buying conversion versus 930.
Putting liquidity aside for a moment and in simplistic form...
I believe I will lose money on EITHER purchase, therefore, its a matter of what cost level would I rather start with ? If I buy a 930 @ $30k and resell at some future date at 80% of 30k, I'm down 6k. If I buy a conversion at 18k and resell and some future date @ 80% of 20k, I'm down 3.6k. I drive like an old lady, therefore, a turbo means nothing to me....its the LOOK I'm after. Additionally, its my understanding that maintenance on a 911 is likley to be less than that of a 930....so, hypothetically, I lose less on both parts of the equation. Not trying to be **** about this, but thats just my financial background mentality.
My rationale for buying conversion versus 930.
Putting liquidity aside for a moment and in simplistic form...
I believe I will lose money on EITHER purchase, therefore, its a matter of what cost level would I rather start with ? If I buy a 930 @ $30k and resell at some future date at 80% of 30k, I'm down 6k. If I buy a conversion at 18k and resell and some future date @ 80% of 20k, I'm down 3.6k. I drive like an old lady, therefore, a turbo means nothing to me....its the LOOK I'm after. Additionally, its my understanding that maintenance on a 911 is likley to be less than that of a 930....so, hypothetically, I lose less on both parts of the equation. Not trying to be **** about this, but thats just my financial background mentality.
I follow your rational, but I question your ability to re-sell this car at 80% of whatever you pay. Sure, you might be able to, but your chances will probably be a lot better with a real one. The reasons that make this car relatively illiquid are the same ones that will impact your 80% assumption.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
11-03-2010, 03:08 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Regarding psychy ROI
Well.....I've read this forum enough to know that Driving a Porsche 911 is
1. 'Priceless'
2. 'Pricey'
One is not quantifiable....the other is. I'm almost afraid to make a purchase since the search/learning has been so much FUN !! I'm sure I'll enjoy the day when it finally arrives.
Well.....I've read this forum enough to know that Driving a Porsche 911 is
1. 'Priceless'
2. 'Pricey'
One is not quantifiable....the other is. I'm almost afraid to make a purchase since the search/learning has been so much FUN !! I'm sure I'll enjoy the day when it finally arrives.
Last edited by Shannon123; 11-03-2010 at 04:03 PM.
11-03-2010, 03:48 PM
#26
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
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I searched a bit, as I really had thought I heard that the cab had these extra reinforcements, but it appears that you are correct. I apologize for the mis-information.
What I did find was this link that, mid-way down, has scans of the Factory manuial for doing targa to cabrio conversions. Maybe that can be useful to aid in evaluating the quality of the conversion work?
http://www.rennlight.com/howto/cab/index.html
11-03-2010, 04:22 PM
#27
Race Car
My 2 cents on value. There is nothing to compare it to. Something so highly modified is way outside the SC market. The only way to think about it, in my opinion, is to ask the question, "What would it cost me to build this car myself?" and go from there. I find it hard to imagine it appreciating in value because, if I ask myself the same question above as time goes by, I don't see the cost to build it going up all that much. The donor car needed to start with is probably going to be a beater SC that will be cheaper than one now, and I don't think the cost of parts and labor are going to go up all that much. If you've got value and appreciation on the brain, this isn't the car to consider in my humble opinion. If you want a car that looks like it would be a blast to drive and absolutely has a wow factor to it on the street, this is it.
Brett
Brett
I respectfully disagree, we are talking almost 30 years out for most of these cars. IMHO there is a market for every car, problem being that the market for all 30± y/o Porsche 911's is a rather small group. Some will ALWAYS want a pristine 100% stock example (and will pay top dollar for them). Others will not care so much about originality but want the experience and style out of this classically shaped automobile (and will happily pay sometimes reasonable and much less, to exorbitant prices depending on the buyer's mood). Still others are happy to start with a car in need of a lot of love hoping to improve it over time spreading out the investment.
You (any of us) will have no easier of a time unloading one of these cars than the people trying to sell them now are having. One must factor in the emotional dividends driving an older 911 pays to truly quantify the ROI. (I'm not in investments, I'm talking out of my a$$ but you get the point)
If I had $15-18k to spend this looks like a very nice place to spend it assuming the quality in person is as nice as the pictures. And I personally see no reason to think you wouldn't get the same back out of it some years down the road.
You (any of us) will have no easier of a time unloading one of these cars than the people trying to sell them now are having. One must factor in the emotional dividends driving an older 911 pays to truly quantify the ROI.
(I'm not in investments, I'm talking out of my a$$ but you get the point)If I had $15-18k to spend this looks like a very nice place to spend it assuming the quality in person is as nice as the pictures. And I personally see no reason to think you wouldn't get the same back out of it some years down the road.
agree with that too.
I can understand the "liquid" aspect of this decision, and there has to be a limit at which being financially responsible overcomes the emotional impact of buying a Porsche. Obviously you won't pay $50K for a car like this, but that limit might be just a bit different for everyone.
good luck!!
11-03-2010, 08:10 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Shannon, in my humble opinion I'd pass on this SC cab conversion, nice as it is and check out the $21K M491/M470 '86 cab that you referred to in your other thread.
Even if you spent $2-4K to get the 491 into "very nice" condition, you'd be money ahead and have what will probably be an appreciating asset once the economy recovers. These cars have a small but enthusiastic following due to having the 930 body/chassis/brakes with the less expen$ive to maintain normally aspirated engine.
This is assuming that car is the real deal, has a clean PPI and is cosmetically decent as is. $21K is a very reasonable price for that car unless it is rougher than it looks in the Auto Trader pics. It appears to have chromed Fuchs which will cost a bit to have stripped and redone properly by Harvey Weidman or Al Reed.
According to Norbert Franz' Turbolook Register ( http://www.turbo-look.de/5-en.php ), only 226 M491 cabriolets were imported to the US in 1986 and of those, only 34 had the M470 spoiler delete option.
Whatever Porsche you end up with, definitely have a thorough PPI done to include pulling the lower rocker covers to check for broken head studs.
Even if you spent $2-4K to get the 491 into "very nice" condition, you'd be money ahead and have what will probably be an appreciating asset once the economy recovers. These cars have a small but enthusiastic following due to having the 930 body/chassis/brakes with the less expen$ive to maintain normally aspirated engine.
This is assuming that car is the real deal, has a clean PPI and is cosmetically decent as is. $21K is a very reasonable price for that car unless it is rougher than it looks in the Auto Trader pics. It appears to have chromed Fuchs which will cost a bit to have stripped and redone properly by Harvey Weidman or Al Reed.
According to Norbert Franz' Turbolook Register ( http://www.turbo-look.de/5-en.php ), only 226 M491 cabriolets were imported to the US in 1986 and of those, only 34 had the M470 spoiler delete option.
Whatever Porsche you end up with, definitely have a thorough PPI done to include pulling the lower rocker covers to check for broken head studs.
11-03-2010, 08:48 PM
#29
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Shannon, in my humble opinion I'd pass on this SC cab conversion, nice as it is and check out the $21K M491/M470 '86 cab that you referred to in your other thread.
Even if you spent $2-4K to get the 491 into "very nice" condition, you'd be money ahead and have what will probably be an appreciating asset once the economy recovers. These cars have a small but enthusiastic following due to having the 930 body/chassis/brakes with the less expen$ive to maintain normally aspirated engine.
This is assuming that car is the real deal, has a clean PPI and is cosmetically decent as is. $21K is a very reasonable price for that car unless it is rougher than it looks in the Auto Trader pics. It appears to have chromed Fuchs which will cost a bit to have stripped and redone properly by Harvey Weidman or Al Reed.
According to Norbert Franz' Turbolook Register ( http://www.turbo-look.de/5-en.php ), only 226 M491 cabriolets were imported to the US in 1986 and of those, only 34 had the M470 spoiler delete option.
Whatever Porsche you end up with, definitely have a thorough PPI done to include pulling the lower rocker covers to check for broken head studs.
Even if you spent $2-4K to get the 491 into "very nice" condition, you'd be money ahead and have what will probably be an appreciating asset once the economy recovers. These cars have a small but enthusiastic following due to having the 930 body/chassis/brakes with the less expen$ive to maintain normally aspirated engine.
This is assuming that car is the real deal, has a clean PPI and is cosmetically decent as is. $21K is a very reasonable price for that car unless it is rougher than it looks in the Auto Trader pics. It appears to have chromed Fuchs which will cost a bit to have stripped and redone properly by Harvey Weidman or Al Reed.
According to Norbert Franz' Turbolook Register ( http://www.turbo-look.de/5-en.php ), only 226 M491 cabriolets were imported to the US in 1986 and of those, only 34 had the M470 spoiler delete option.
Whatever Porsche you end up with, definitely have a thorough PPI done to include pulling the lower rocker covers to check for broken head studs.
11-05-2010, 01:23 AM
#30
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If he is at half price and you love the car, buy it and expect to loose 30% in a resale. POMO and QE2 may make Wall Street look like this is a great investing time but Main Street is tight with the buck and getting worse. This person called you back---- maybe he is having problems selling the car. Hit him at half price and then walk away no matter what he says. Take a harder look at the 911 Carreras 84-87.