I have updated the photos. They are at:http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin...action=display&

I hav put in the garage, an engin shot and the interior.

I am unable to crank the engin by hand. I cannot grab the crankshaft because of a sheetmetal bracket blocking it. It looks like I must crank the AC compressor/clutch. I could cut belts. They are just about new! I see no way to grab the shaft or pully. What do you think?

 

I have updated the photos. They are at:

<a href="http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/pmpre/pm.cgi?login=maxa&action=display&" target="_blank">http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/pmpre/pm.cgi?login=maxa&action=display&</a>

I added in, the garage, an engine shot, and the interior.

I am unable to crank the engine by hand. I cannot grab the crankshaft because of a sheetmetal bracket blocking it. It looks like I must crank the AC compressor/clutch. I could cut belts. They are just about new! I see no way to grab the shaft or pully. What do you think?

 

I wouldn't let anyone do a PPI on it, unless you enjoy getting jerked around. A '78 w/ 30k mi on it? A PPI, or any inspection for that matter, in the end, will end up costing you money that you sound like you don't want to spend. Someone out there is looking for your car at 10 grand, w/out a PPI, IMO.

David Cate
'89 911

 

PS...

Also, you sound honest, so it might bring more, maybe much more, w/out any PPI.

David

 

Why not get a estimate to find out how much it will cost to get the car running again. That way you know EXACT what it worth. Since you are in the south bay, give Don @CT Automotive a call. They are located in CAMPBELL. Good luck ken

 

Maxa - please don't take this the wrong way, but I would leave checking the engine to a professional (as an FYI, unless you remove the spark plugs, the engine's compression will prevent you from being able to turn the engine by hand). Good luck!

 

Maxa, you might try consignment. It will get it out of your garage. When shopping for mine I came across California Motorsport in Sunnyvale, maybe near you? I did not buy there but they sell Porsches and have a nice place. I would think yours would be "special" enough to get a spot.

<a href="http://www.calmotorsport.com/consignment.htm" target="_blank">http://www.calmotorsport.com/consignment.htm</a>

 

I checked out the pics on the Pelican link and have a (dumb)question: In the engine compartment I see an additional fan belt running to the left side of the engine. On the right is the A/C compressor. What is on the left that the belt is driving? On my '86 I have only two belts, on this model, there are three.

Thanks in advance for the dumb question (just trying to learn more than I know which is more than a bunch!)

Regards,
Jim
'86 911

 

Jim:

The left side apparatus is the emmissions air pump that is found on some SC models.

Jay
90 964

 

Thanks Jay.

Regards,
Jim
'86 911

 

Well I have talked with quite a few people. I think I will ask $10,500 as a starting point. I have been told it will take about $2000 in parts to fix. That gives the buyer a porsche for about 12K and 30,700 miles on the clock. Yes, it is a project. But it is a very good starting point.

OK now make whatever comments you would. If you want to see it, call me at 408 867 5461

I have decided to go for a "no funny experiment approach". A number of people have told me that turning the engine over without pulling the engine from the car is an error. So the end result is, I will make things worse. I do not intend to do that.

Discretion is the better part of valor in this case.

 

maxa -
IMO, your price may be too high. It's funny that the only thing people are addressing here is the engine. Even best case senario, to "fix" it for $2k in parts I believe is very unrealistic. You may get it running for $2k, but not "fixed." Below is a list of things that in all reality "must" be replaced and that tops $2k easily and that does not even take anyone's time into consideration. Yes only 30k miles on the car "sounds" great, however it means nothing. Example - in Panorama this month, there is a '78 SC Targa for sell with over $18k in upgrades and repairs (still stock) in perfect "running" condition being offered for $15.5k or best offer. Another one also being offered in Panorama this month, 2nd owner car, with all records and recent service completed being offered for $12,950. Granted both these cars have more miles, however they are running and the condition is known with service records.

Here's the list I came up with of things to consider with your's SC:
1. Not stored properly.
2. Not only is the condition of the engine unknown, but also the transmission (syncros, bearings, etc.) and all moving parts, motors, blowers, ignition wires, plugs, chain tensoners, fuel filters, etc., and the list goes on and on.
3. The A/C compressor will need replacing (once the seals dry out, they will continue to leak).
4. Brake lines will probably need to be replaced (rubber deteriorates over time).
5. All rubber oil lines will need replacing.
6. Brake calipers may need overhauling or placeing.
7. Every electrical component will need to be checked and possible serviced.
8. All rubber components may need replacing as they deteriorate over time regarless of being used or not.
9. The shocks may need replacing as well due to not being used, thus the first time being compressed may leak and continue to leak.
10. Tires will need replacing, even if the fronts hold air, they have deteriorated over time and now have flat spots.
11. You have not discounted for labor. Even if some one did the work themselves, labor time must be included (opportunity cost), particularly if someone was to buy the car to restore and sell.
12. Guages may or may not be working.
13. You state that there is some corrosion in the targa top members.
14. Other body work may also show up as a complete inspection of the undercarriage is done.

These are the items I have come up with and I have not discussed with my wrench nor friends in the local PCA who have done these projects.

IMO, you are looking at, at least $8 - 10K in parts to repair the car and get it in "good" running condition (maybe more as I've found out the hard way)and this does not even include labor and I don't know too many people even when doing projects that work for free (it all must be priced in). So I believe that with your asking price of $10.5k is too much. When you add in conservative $8k in parts (probably more), and $5k in labor (realized or not), you have a car that you would have invested at a very minimum $23.5K, and that is if everything went perfect. It is not worth that much even with only 30k miles on it. These cars are not that rare (three for sale in this months Panorama).

I sent you an e-mail if you care to respond.

Good Luck and sorry to be a devils advocate, but experience has taught me that you must be realistic and consider the worst case senario. Sellers always believe what they are selling is worth more and buyers always want a good deal.

Regards,
Jim
'86 911

 

I completely disagree with Jet -- I think $10,500 sounds very fair at the least, and may even be a steal for your car. This is based on the assumption that it is virtually perfect cosmetically; if it is a "time-warp" car, all original and immaculate, it IS rare, even if it's "just" a '78 SC Targa. If it's not in truly superb shape cosmetically, then it's another story.

It will almost certainly need a fair amount of work to get it in running condition, but it may or may not need all the things Jet lists. They're all possibilities, but I think it is unlikely that ALL of those things will be needed. The new owner will ultimately find himself with an extremely low mileage SC. The cars Jet listed for sale in Pano include one with 134,000 miles ($12,950), and the other makes no mention whatsoever of mileage or condition; those are very different cars from yours (running notwithstanding ). There is a '78 SC coupe in the same Pano for $21,500 that is advertised as "near perfect" (no mileage listed).

Your car, if it's in superb shape, could really appeal to a concours type, for example. You would have to be a little patient, perhaps, to find the right buyer for your car. There are people who will pay for a very low mileage car, again assuming its in great original condition.

As many have said, it may prove very worthwhile to have a good mechanic evaluate it and get it running. You'll have a much better idea of what will be needed then, and you'll be better able to determine a reasonable price.

 

I'd stick with the $10,500 price for now. You can always lower your price, but you can't go up.

If no-one bites at that price, then start dropping it.

 

Todd -
I've got a bridge for sale. It's fairly inexpensive. It's old (25 years now) however it cosmetically looks good and structurally I think it's ok, at least that's what everyone tells me. No one has seen it, so they may be wrong (I built a new bridge that I use daily). I know I didn't do any maintenance on the bridge or store it correctly and I really don't know much about bridges. The only hitch is that from where you are, you must drive over the bridge to make the deal. I wouldn't worry too much though, it's only 2000 feet to the bottom of the valley and you should be able to make it ok, but I really don't know for sure. Todd - get my drift....

I was simply pointing out the things that may need to be considered and the amount that may need to be invested to get the car to good condition. IMO I still believe it is much more that even you may think.

As far as the cars in Panorama go, you are absolutely right about the mileage, however look at the amounts invested in maintenance, the records and that they are owned by PCA members, who always want a premium and who I'll bet, very rarely get it. I also listed my source so that anyone who is a PCA member could look them up and see the mileage as you did (good work!). No deception was intended, as I simply referenced the cars. There is also another 78 SC in Panorama as well for $22k had a "total" engine rebuild at 90k (maybe $12K?), not counting the other service and I'll bet it has not much more mileage than that now. Lets see that's four for sale this month - rare?

My point is that you are buying "knowns", not unknowns. If you are a gambler, then go for it. I'm a gambler, but I hedge my bets when unknowns are involved, and with this situation, the hedge would be a lower price.

I don't know if these cars are rare or not. If they are, there sure seems to be a bunch of them for sale. Four for sale this month in one publication. They are for sale every month in Panorama and it's not the same ones over and over. In my town, there was a 78 SC for sale a few weeks ago or so with an asking price of $13k with just over 70k miles. I looked at the car and it was in very good condition. However, I thought it was too expensive. It did sell, so someone thought it was a deal.

IMO, this low milage thing is not what it use to be. Just look at the white 89 cab for sale in this forum. Many upgrades, 44k miles and maybe the best of the 78 - 89 vintage. Asking price $25k and I'll bet it will go for less. Three years ago it would have fetched $32K in a heartbeat. I perfer to drive my cars. Maybe someone would want a 30K mile garage queen, not me. Soon it would have 40k, then 50K..... then no more low milage premium...

Anything mechanical or rubber that is 25 years old will begin to deteriorate - this is a fact. I believe many more things will need replacing than you think.

Enough on this. I was only trying to give some input to any potential buyer that there may be more, much more than $2K in parts. I may also be totally wrong (not the first time). However I wouldn't bid more than $5k on the car. Sure it may be a diamond in the rough or it may be a real money pit. What is your bet? Only the person who ends up buying it will know for sure, sometime in the future....

Regards,
Jim
'86 911