Ed Hughes

Yep, they need to take it or leave it. You'll find other opportunities. They need to resign themselves to the fact this ain't their usual used car, and just be glad they can turn the money.

ivangene

and being a Dodge dealer, my guess is they "detailed" the car... that might take a while to fix

briand

ivangene,

On my first visit the salesperson said they detailed the interior and exterior to which I responded "I hope that means you gently bathed the outside with lots and lots of suds, dried it properly, vacuumed the inside and then didn't touch it after that."

No response from the sales guy.

More impressions from my visits:

I did not feel any oily mess/residue on the exterior or the interior. I know some used car dealerships (maybe some still do?) used to rub the cars down with thinner weight motor oil to give them a wet look shine. I lightly ran my fingers over all of the places where the panels and meet and I felt smoothness in the fit between panels. The paint felt smooth but probably because of a wax they used. I'm certain it could use a good claying.

ivangene, I argree. My next step is to stick to $13,500 out the door and to contact Franz about a PPI. Of course in the sale contract I'd stipulate that (a) documents must be produced to me, reviewed by me and my mechanic & deemed to be in satisfactory order and (b) the offer amount is contingent upon the results of the PPI. My thought is that (b) should be a dollar amount limit to repairs. E.g., if repairs deemed needed by PPI are in excess of $xxxx offer is null and we have no deal and/or I reserve the right to adjust my offer based on the results of the PPI. I wonder if you all here think thats the best way?

Ed hughes, you are correct!
There are a few other 911s I am interested in (two of which seem to be pingman's two 911s) so I can walk, and have a feeling I probably will since the "we can't get ahold of the owner that we took it in on trade from to get the documentation but Jared here has held the documents and its a stack this tall" runaround continues.

If I don't buy this car, I just hope no one else is less persistent. I think I've finally gotten passed their B.S. but jeez. Why do used car places have to start out in such a dishonest way?

briand

Exactly. And since they took it in on a trade, wouldn't they have only given the person that owned it roughly half of what they're asking? So in this instance with the dealership asking $15,600, the trade-in credit the dealership would have given would be about $7500 - $8000, correct? The fact that I'm willing (provided PPI checks out) to pay an additional $5500 - $6000 above what "they have in it" should be worth not turning away.

Adams

I shopped them when I got my Viper, but never connected. There were some, oh let's just say 'mildly negative posts' on the Viper site concerning them. Apparently a 'new' guy took over about a year ago and is doing his best to dig themselves out of a rather unscrupulous hole.

My daughter turned 16 and began shopping all over creation, turns out the Jeep of choice was - guess where? Yep, this dealership. I went there with my radar on red alert. Upon meeting the salesperson I'd contacted by phone, he (Jason or Jared?) dealt me such a line of crud that, I stopped him in mid-sentence and said, "Don't ever try that on me again" and requested another salesperson.

Salesperson #2 takes over. Does a reasonable job, negotiates a bit. Makes the mistake of 'promising' me a part that went astray. I buy the car. Remarkably haphazard in the paperwork dept; my title is sent, lost, resent, relost and after my 4th or so frustrated call... turns out it was NEVER sent. Had been on the desk of the title clerk the whole time, and FINALLY FedExed.

The errant part? Never showed. I never even called about it. Chalked it up.

Lastly, when I was leaving, I saw them 'detailing' a Viper. On the trunk of this Gen III car, sat a box of chicken and a can of Coke. True.

Think twice. Your offer is fair. Just double check the 'promises' and the paperwork.

User 4221

You should assume the documentation will never be produced and adjust your price accordingly.

Or, better yet, make them two offers.....

$13500 w/paperwork
$10000 w/o paperwork

That should help cover the cost of any pulled head studs, etc.

briand

Adams,

Well thats great news Just before I read your post, I thought I should probably look through the mopar forums for any mention of that dealership. Seems I'm not the only one. I'll send a complaint to Dodge corporate and the BBB. I doubt it will do anything mostly because Dodge has this dealership rated as a 5-star dealership (which, obviously, means nothing).

Scott C,

I like your thinking. I may just do that. (ADDITION: after some thought, a car without paperwork isn't a car as far as I am concerned. Especially since its RoW/grey-market.)

I'm going to try to schedule an appointment to see another 911 Targa that is in the Atlanta metro area. If that one turns up nicer, then I'll just leave this Dodge dealership one alone.

Again, I can't thank you all enough. I hope I'm able to help all of you out in the future.

whalebird

I always take a bit of satisfaction (in a sad, sick way), of pushing these kind of dealerships into a corner. I worked for a dealer (Porsche/Benz/Rover(as a tech)) and know all the tactics. Ask to speak to the general manager, lay your offer out(pending PPI) and wait - maybe 30 seconds for a profesional and respectful response. If no, turn around and walk. If you have to have this car...hand the GM your card with your cell number on it and instruct him to call with a yes or no in the next 2 hours. Your time is valuable, so don't let these clowns waste it. Deal or no deal-it's that easy. Shouldn't take more than ten minutes to buy a car.

User 040621

I'll add one additional point. Whether the previous owner of this Porsche is 3rd or 33rd in line at UPS, these executives and managers are mostly cut from the same cloth. They started as drivers long ago. They tend to be very conservative. They tend to be educated. And they tend to be very direct. There's no way this person is dealing with this dealership if he's getting the run around you're getting. Their work habbits mean that the docs would have been included with the title and spare keys, etc at the time the deal was made. Besides, who trades a perfectly good 911 in for a Dodge?

Their story stinks. While the records would be good to see, I'd be inclined to let the PPI via the experienced tech be the true judge of the car. If the records are produced, look for the notes referring to the deferred service. Look for the gaps...not just how thick the stack is.

I'd also add one suggestion. Insist on seeing the title and related docs to confirm that this is a three owner car. I'm guessing that it really could be a professional used car....with a long and questionable past. If the title cannot be produced, and you cannot track it's ownership via carfax, I'd deduct some more from your offer.

Too bad so many dealers are so slippery. Good luck with the search.

pingman

Briand,
I still have both cars for sale, I sent you an e-mail, and hey I have some paperwork and manuals and titles and repair books and parts, and time on my hands! Come on down south of Atlanta, and lets do some curvey country roads! Mark

briand

Thanks pingman. Sent you an email

mitch9000, I agree with your observation of big company execs as I've met, begged for money for our startup and been around these types of people. The guy traded it for a new-ish Porsche 911.

Its very bizarre. One pulls in to the Palmer Dodge dealership and sees 4 Porsches and one Dodge Viper parked at the front entrance. So which is it? A Porsche dealership or a Dodge dealership? Nope, answer c; a used car lot. And a dodgy one at that.

ha! I made a pun!