G-50 who ??
05-02-2010, 05:42 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Great looking car. I would look around and at least test drive a G-50. If you don't drive one, you will always questions yourself about it. Even if you decide to buy this car, at least you'll have the knowledge of knowing how the G-50 is to drive.
If a seller wants to sell his car and the buyer is pretty open with him saying he can't decide between a G-50 and a 915 gearbox, the seller should have no problem with a test drive hoping the G-50 is the deciding point to help seal the deal on his car. Then again, the seller might think the buyer already made up his mind on the 915 and not take kindly to a test drive.
Either way, go drive G-50. You have nothing to lose.
If a seller wants to sell his car and the buyer is pretty open with him saying he can't decide between a G-50 and a 915 gearbox, the seller should have no problem with a test drive hoping the G-50 is the deciding point to help seal the deal on his car. Then again, the seller might think the buyer already made up his mind on the 915 and not take kindly to a test drive.
Either way, go drive G-50. You have nothing to lose.
05-02-2010, 09:10 PM
#17
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It sounds to me that OP was looking at a private sale and I'm sure that was what Dave was refering to as well. In which case his point stands. It is one thing to be a professional in the business of auto sales developing a relationship with a client (and letting him/her drive a car you likely have no ownership of). To have someone come by my house to take my car out for a spin just to convince themselves that this type of car, engine, transmission, etc. is or is not for them ...and with no serious intention to buy my car is quite another. IMHO of course.
Dave, Ice makes a good & true point. Once a car salesman in my distant past, occasionally described as good (as well as "Import Salesman of the Year" / big fing deal...), I encouraged enthusiast-prospects "just looking" to drive a car that might help them make a better decision in the future... sometimes the future turned out to be upon our return from the test drive... other times they sent me referrals because of the way I treated them.
Further, I would encourage those delving into old Porsches of all stripes to avail themselves of their PCA chapter or the 356 Registry - while the "no one's *** shall ever touch the driver's seat of my car" set may outnumber the "anyone want to take it for a spin?" group, you'd be suprised how happy to oblige the minority can be.
I think the key thing is to be forthcoming, & people (good dealers as well as individuals) will be supportive in return. Regardless, w/ old sports cars, I advise my friends to drive 'em in order to confirm that reality corresponds to their dreams.
btw, one doesn't need to drive the **** out of 915 & G50 Carreras in order to understand what everyone's talking about - they just need to be in good working order... w/ no hype modifications in either.
Further, I would encourage those delving into old Porsches of all stripes to avail themselves of their PCA chapter or the 356 Registry - while the "no one's *** shall ever touch the driver's seat of my car" set may outnumber the "anyone want to take it for a spin?" group, you'd be suprised how happy to oblige the minority can be.
I think the key thing is to be forthcoming, & people (good dealers as well as individuals) will be supportive in return. Regardless, w/ old sports cars, I advise my friends to drive 'em in order to confirm that reality corresponds to their dreams.
btw, one doesn't need to drive the **** out of 915 & G50 Carreras in order to understand what everyone's talking about - they just need to be in good working order... w/ no hype modifications in either.
05-02-2010, 10:53 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Read the original post again. He already made an offer and the car is getting PPI'd. That means he has already decided to buy THIS car. Given that, it would be inappropriate to go and waste someone else's time and test drive their car just to see what it's like, with no chance of buying it. If the seller KNOWS about it and agrees, that's fine, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about taking advantage of someone else's time and risking their car under false pretenses. I would be absolutely livid if someone did that to me.
A dealer trying to build a relationship with someone who may eventually buy from him is a completely different matter. I'm not talking about that scenario.
A dealer trying to build a relationship with someone who may eventually buy from him is a completely different matter. I'm not talking about that scenario.
05-03-2010, 12:42 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
That is a sweet looking car. If it checks out, you're happy with it, and the price you paid-buy it and get on with enjoyment. Forget the G-50 vs 915 deal, it really is about the car as a package. It's so much more than the sum of its parts.
05-03-2010, 01:01 AM
#21
Drifting
Thread Starter
Wow..what an experience or lack thereof....
To answer some of the questions:
Yes, it is original paint and yes it does have rock chips but it is a very forgiving color. Ed, it shifted much more crisply than your baby. Yours was a 8/10 and this one a 10/10(it should as the clutch is 1.5K miles old) but I am an infant and not an expert when it comes to 911's and it's gearboxes so take it for what it's worth.
Dave and a few others, I totally echo your sentiment...I value other people's time and would never toy with their cars just for the sake of it. I am a physician and always make it a point to see my patient's on time. They even say that doc how come you never give us time to read all the nice magazines in your office. There was still 3 days left for the PPI and I would have explained my case to the seller (and apologized) and backed off before the PPI if I really felt that it was a G-50 or nothing else. I intended to tell the G-50 guys today about what my situation was even before I touched their babies.
Wow...what an experience or lack thereof.
So kissed wifey/kids goodbye in the morning and left home by 8 AM and reached used dealership number one in 3 hours. This was a BBB A+ accredited dealer in the NE suburb of Seattle. Was shocked to see that the showroom was nothing but a big old warehouse housing about 80 cars or so all lined up next to each other. The car mix consisted of a wide array from contemporary ones like X5's, Z4's to old immortal cars including jags and Porsche's like the 356 speedster, SC's, 964's. The two salesman as expected were clueless in terms of 911's and they referred me to their boss (the owner's son probably in his early 40's who was touted as a 911 expert and claimed to have owned three of them). It only got worse. I wanted to know if he had any 3.2's without a whale tail as they had an 85, 87 and 88 all with the whale tail. He said "Oh sure" and took me to a 964 (a '93 year Carrera 4) and told me that this was the only non-turbo 3.2 they had. He told me that too bad their other 3.2's were all turbo's hence the whale tail...Wow ??? He then stated that I should'nt be looking at pre-87 coupe's due to a very poor transmission (although he could not tell based on the position of the reverse gear if it was a getrag or not on the 3.2's he had since it was missing the sticker). Very politely they told me that I could not test drive any cars per their policy unless I prove to them to that I am no tirekicker and make a serious offer after I allow them to do a credit check. Several of their cars are consignment cars. Even if they allowed me to do so, it would have taken half a day to get one of those "87-89 coupes (they had two of them including the 25th year commemorative 3.2 with Ferry Porsche's signature on the headrest) out of that mess of cars which reminded me of the hens are kept either in cages, or in a huge flock in enclosed barns in the egg farm industry.
The next used dealer was a thirty minute drive from there. Similar situation (a la egg farm industry with a lot of supercars..ops superhens) Even worse, their policy was okay to look but no touch on most cars (I dont blame them as all I saw was Carrera GT's, Enzos, DBS and Scuderias. They had the only 3.2 which was a '89 cabriolet with 129K miles on a rebuilt engine listed for 25K. Salesman showed the car, shared it's service history folder and told me that their policy was no test drives. If I liked a car and wanted a PPI, they would drive it to the mechanic and if I then wanted the car, I would have to make an offer. Only after it is acceptable to them do I get to test drive and then I have the right of refusal.
My last hope of a G-50 test drive was a private seller in Seattle on autotrader who I could not reach on the phone for the past week...today was no different. So drove 3 hours back and came home a couple of hours ago. Six hours of driving today and time behind the wheel of a G-50 ...zero. So maybe that was the way it was meant to be. The '86 coupe is getting PPI'ed this Wednesday and I doubt the seller would want to wait anymore than a week or so to move his car (if the PPI checks out okay). He already had two serious parties interested but no offer. After my offer he politely told the others to hold off for now.
Yes time is not of the essence, I do know that there are or will be some good cars available for sale...but do I want to let this one go by...I can wait, go for PCA events (just became a member), make friends, eventually drive a G-50 or fly out to other places just to drive a G-50. I started off wanting a 964, then wanted something more classic and retro so went with 3.2, then restricted it to a red color and G-50 but now I've made my decision. The picture that I've attached tells you which direction I am headed. Ya..too bad I would never have a driven a G-50 car to know what it felt like. That is okay, I grew up in India driving cable driven gearboxes not hydraulic. So it is right up my alley.
Yes, it is original paint and yes it does have rock chips but it is a very forgiving color. Ed, it shifted much more crisply than your baby. Yours was a 8/10 and this one a 10/10(it should as the clutch is 1.5K miles old) but I am an infant and not an expert when it comes to 911's and it's gearboxes so take it for what it's worth.
Dave and a few others, I totally echo your sentiment...I value other people's time and would never toy with their cars just for the sake of it. I am a physician and always make it a point to see my patient's on time. They even say that doc how come you never give us time to read all the nice magazines in your office. There was still 3 days left for the PPI and I would have explained my case to the seller (and apologized) and backed off before the PPI if I really felt that it was a G-50 or nothing else. I intended to tell the G-50 guys today about what my situation was even before I touched their babies.
Wow...what an experience or lack thereof.
So kissed wifey/kids goodbye in the morning and left home by 8 AM and reached used dealership number one in 3 hours. This was a BBB A+ accredited dealer in the NE suburb of Seattle. Was shocked to see that the showroom was nothing but a big old warehouse housing about 80 cars or so all lined up next to each other. The car mix consisted of a wide array from contemporary ones like X5's, Z4's to old immortal cars including jags and Porsche's like the 356 speedster, SC's, 964's. The two salesman as expected were clueless in terms of 911's and they referred me to their boss (the owner's son probably in his early 40's who was touted as a 911 expert and claimed to have owned three of them). It only got worse. I wanted to know if he had any 3.2's without a whale tail as they had an 85, 87 and 88 all with the whale tail. He said "Oh sure" and took me to a 964 (a '93 year Carrera 4) and told me that this was the only non-turbo 3.2 they had. He told me that too bad their other 3.2's were all turbo's hence the whale tail...Wow ??? He then stated that I should'nt be looking at pre-87 coupe's due to a very poor transmission (although he could not tell based on the position of the reverse gear if it was a getrag or not on the 3.2's he had since it was missing the sticker). Very politely they told me that I could not test drive any cars per their policy unless I prove to them to that I am no tirekicker and make a serious offer after I allow them to do a credit check. Several of their cars are consignment cars. Even if they allowed me to do so, it would have taken half a day to get one of those "87-89 coupes (they had two of them including the 25th year commemorative 3.2 with Ferry Porsche's signature on the headrest) out of that mess of cars which reminded me of the hens are kept either in cages, or in a huge flock in enclosed barns in the egg farm industry.
The next used dealer was a thirty minute drive from there. Similar situation (a la egg farm industry with a lot of supercars..ops superhens) Even worse, their policy was okay to look but no touch on most cars (I dont blame them as all I saw was Carrera GT's, Enzos, DBS and Scuderias. They had the only 3.2 which was a '89 cabriolet with 129K miles on a rebuilt engine listed for 25K. Salesman showed the car, shared it's service history folder and told me that their policy was no test drives. If I liked a car and wanted a PPI, they would drive it to the mechanic and if I then wanted the car, I would have to make an offer. Only after it is acceptable to them do I get to test drive and then I have the right of refusal.
My last hope of a G-50 test drive was a private seller in Seattle on autotrader who I could not reach on the phone for the past week...today was no different. So drove 3 hours back and came home a couple of hours ago. Six hours of driving today and time behind the wheel of a G-50 ...zero. So maybe that was the way it was meant to be. The '86 coupe is getting PPI'ed this Wednesday and I doubt the seller would want to wait anymore than a week or so to move his car (if the PPI checks out okay). He already had two serious parties interested but no offer. After my offer he politely told the others to hold off for now.
Yes time is not of the essence, I do know that there are or will be some good cars available for sale...but do I want to let this one go by...I can wait, go for PCA events (just became a member), make friends, eventually drive a G-50 or fly out to other places just to drive a G-50. I started off wanting a 964, then wanted something more classic and retro so went with 3.2, then restricted it to a red color and G-50 but now I've made my decision. The picture that I've attached tells you which direction I am headed. Ya..too bad I would never have a driven a G-50 car to know what it felt like. That is okay, I grew up in India driving cable driven gearboxes not hydraulic. So it is right up my alley.
Last edited by w00tPORSCHE; 06-02-2010 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Add info.
05-03-2010, 01:15 AM
#22
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I think Ed is right on. This isn't about this tranny vs. that one. It's about the whole car as a package and how you enjoy it. I don't think there ever has been a perfect 911 for everyone. My personal favorite 911, for the overall classic look, is a long hood coupe. But unless I'm in a position to own at least 4 911s I'll likely never own one of those babies. For me the best overall compromise, knowing I could realistically only ever own one 911 at a time, was realized in my 964 cab.
I think you picked a winner. Congrats.
I think you picked a winner. Congrats.
05-03-2010, 02:44 AM
#23
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Doc! i bought my 85' as a rebound car when a 993 wide body got sold 15 minutes before i arrived at the dealership. I didn't get what i went out to buy that day, but I've owned the 85' for six years and I'm very glad i did it... my PPI told me to be prepared for a number of minor repairs (est 2K), which got factored into my price. I've driven the car hard and maintained it even better... The car is nothing short of spectacular to drive... Yes, the transmission has a long throw as compared to the G50 (driven them too!) but if it ever bothers you it can be shortened up nicely anytime in the future you like... you already seem proud of your pick... if all comes back well this wednesday, enjoy!!!!
05-03-2010, 09:59 AM
#24
Race Car
wOO. Sure drive the G50 cars. You will find that the difference is minimal. That 86 is the bomb. If it checks out, you will be thrilled. I really hope this works out for you, an 86 is a GREAT car.
05-03-2010, 11:01 AM
#26
Drifting
Thread Starter
I am truly moved by all the support I have received from all of you. What a great group. The seller spent an hour giving me a lesson on how to inspect and test drive a car using his '86 coupe as an example, pointed out the few blemishes on the interior/exterior that he picked up during his inspection when he bought the car, then shared that very impressive folder of service records. I am glad that I did not take my checkbook with me as I would have just driven her back home.
05-04-2010, 02:02 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
I place a high value on a folder of service records. It follows that an owner that sees value in keeping records is one that is concerned about regularly maintaining the vehicle. Those are the best cars to buy, IMO.
05-04-2010, 12:40 PM
#29
Drifting
Thread Starter
Ed (Ivangene), fine wine (from some great local wineries), dine (courtesy my wife who is a culinary genius) followed by one on one time to experience pure harmony between man and machine...does not get any better than that. You are more than welcome anytime my friend.
05-04-2010, 05:56 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
I still say you should "taste" the G50 so you sleep at night, knowing that you did so.
No doubt, that nice car (w/915) will serve you quite well.
Fine wine is my "bag".......
Whatever the outcome (judgemental/principles comments aside), you're destined to enjoy what you get,..I can tell....just remember to drink that First Growth AFTER you're afternoon drives !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best to you and yours',
Doyle
No doubt, that nice car (w/915) will serve you quite well.
Fine wine is my "bag".......
Whatever the outcome (judgemental/principles comments aside), you're destined to enjoy what you get,..I can tell....just remember to drink that First Growth AFTER you're afternoon drives !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best to you and yours',
Doyle