Ed Hughes

Yeah, but to "move the mountain and rip into a 911 engine", it takes a sack of money.

Brett San Diego

So let's contemplate an ultra low-budget repair. Let's say Rusnak is doing all the work, and we're not paying him anything. LOL. So what would it cost in the fewest number of parts required and bare minimum of machining required to make this engine run with reasonable compression?

Assuming we need exhaust valves on two cylinders... So two valves and valve seats... Do new valves and seats get machined? New valve cover gaskets, some sealant... What else? How little can this cost?

Brett

race911

I guaran_______tee you that even on the low side you're looking at $2K if the moon, stars, and planets align with NO outside labor involved other than machining the heads. Anyone who goes into one of these just to fix a problem cylinder or two deserves what he gets. (Absent a quick trackside fix to keep you going because you towed 1K miles to make an event............grrrrr.)

No one has mentioned the underlying mileage on this engine, but you're replacing guides no matter. Likely exhaust valves. Intakes depending on how much stem taper. A gasket set and consumables. Oil return tubes. Cross your fingers on the rocker arms and cams, but again, is this a 100K mile engine or 200K+???? And we haven't even looked at the pistons. Alusils? Maybe today someone can make them work with new rings; in the '80's and '90's we didn't bother since there were so many low mileage used sets around to pop in there.

Ed Hughes

Eggsactly! To try and rifle shot the problem is going to backfire. One would assume that he would then sell the car. A hack repair will not do much for the car's value, and he'll spend money to do it. Much better to take the lump now, and sell the project to someone who would do it right. Assuming there's something wrong inside the motor, and that it isn't an easy fix.

ivangene

back on the leakdown - I got to do one today on an M96 3.6 - never seen it, knew what it did but not how... pretty easy - pretty fast (thought it took hours???)

the tool is a "mystery box" but the test was SIMPLE AS H3LL !

we had 85% leak - then realized we were on TCD4 not TDC1

rusnak

This car is a beater, and that is a flattering statement.

I just can't describe here on Rennlist, what with the sophistication on this board, all that the car has been through. It just wouldn't register. The demographic is probably like West Virginia appalachian, but Mexican instead of Caucasian. Think that, and how would one in such a demographic go about fixing a Porsche, and you begin to get the picture.

If the guy goes for a cheap fix, he'd be very cheap. He would not fix it like you or I would. I just cant describe the littany of cheap fixes on that particular car. The number is vast. I sort of half hope that the engine is done so he moves on and buys a Honda. The car has been through that much abuse. It almost belongs in the Porsche museum for how durable the 911 motor is. What will probably happen is that Cyl #3 gets a time cert spark plug fix, and #4 gets a used valve or two and a single valve 3 angle re-grind. Cams get re-inserted, and the car is driven until it just explodes.

rusnak

.....wait a minute.... LOL!

ivangene

Yea, it was funny after we figured it out - bit of an awe **** moment when the number was so high (new motor just re-timed the cam for an issue fixed) big eyes

whalebird

rusnak, it sounds like you need to cut your losses here my friend. There is nothing funny down the road your looking. Unless there is a good looking chic involved, stay out of that neighborhood. Ask the guy what he would take for the car just to get rid of the problem now.
The broken rocker thing is certainly not a diagnostic tool by any means. I have seen a few broken rockers and it never was clear what happened except a valve got smacked somehow. I did know in most cases there was a missed shift, and that in 2 incedents, the problem occured immediatly after an off-track (agricultural) excursion - assumed that the motor was spun backwards in the looping. With an old beater: worn guides, creeping rocker shafts, questionable adjustments, snapped head studs etc can make a lot happen, or not happen. Hell, the rockers may be the only thing left worth a toot.

Ed Hughes

Whale-I didn't mean to refute your statement on rockers, merely to point out they don't always break. I've heard that Porsche engineered them to be a weak point to avoid catastrophe. I've seen broken rockers too, but my damage was limited to bent adjusting screws.

whalebird

No, by no means are you refuting my statement. In fact you make GOOD points here. I've understood the rockers to be an engineered "fuse" as well. But in reality, when contact happens, you've got problems. I can't imagine a rocker snapping and it not bending a valve; the damage is done. Furthermore, it doesn't seem like valve float would stress a rocker in an over-rev. When contact does happen, something has to give. IIRC, stock rockers are good to 8000.
sheesh, the idea of something rubberbanding inside your motor is a disheartning one.

For the record though, if you ever hear the high frequency clinking, like chanpagne glasses, it's your motors farwell toast - TURN IT OFF quick. Poor maintenance, valve guides shot, etc leads to this and it's usually 90+ degrees outside. I bet that rusniks buddy may have heard this.

Brett San Diego

Eggggsactly. Which is why I ask the question, just how cheap can this repair be. Not everyone has or wants to spend the "sack of money" that Ed's spending now. I'm thinking that with doing all the labor yourself, slipping in a new valve or two can't be more than $300-$500. Let's say you re-use all the head stud washers and nuts and valve cover washers and nuts (gasp). Real "rat rod" stuff.

Brett

rusnak

He just asked me to go out there (it's actually more like 60 miles, according to my GPS) to take a look. I'll let you guys know what I find out. I'll ask him if he heard a high frequency ting ting ting sound....that would be the valve head bouncing around in the cylinder?

WB, believe me, there is no good looking chick, lol. I told him to sell his 911 for whatever he can get as a salvage vehicle. I don't want any part of this engine teardown. That's for someone who needs an engine case or used engine parts.

Ed Hughes

I just think that to try and band-aid this one problem is a waste of time and money. If the car is this bad, what are the odds that someone can take it apart far enough to fix the root issue and not have something else rear it's ugly head? A Steve Weiner or Pete Z could probably pull this off, and there goes the budget, but not the average shade-tree mechanic. If the band-aid can be pulled off, it still is a POS. It'll end up being another 911 with gobs of RTV holding the engine together.

rusnak

If I said that it already is...and so what is more RTV and other such nightmares added to the old, I think you'd get the picture. I'm going to try to encourage him to junk the car, but he's got this notion that the valve adjustment will yield a miracle over the dead cylinder. It's because it's the cheap and easy thing to do, not because the one has anything to do with the other.