RANDY P

It would be more appropiate if they changed the name from Swamp Monster to "White Elephant". That would be truth in advertising.

rjp

Carlos

TP, dont let your heart override your brain. Here's the link <a href="http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zeroforum?id=49" target="_blank">http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zeroforum?id=49</a> go look for yourself. You see more problems on one screen of this forum than if 5 pages over there. The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off.

sschmerg

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> Sean, you want to talk about build quality, go to the corvette boards. The endless listings af people with problems that you see on ALL these boards do not exist. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Probably because it's just an understood that they will break down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> For one thing Carlos, Corvettes are an absolute rattletrap once you put a few years worth of mileage on them. They feel a little more solid than a Chrysler K-car. Where most of the world went to unibody decades ago, Corvettes still uses a full frame with a fiberglass shell. It doesn’t make for the most rigid construction.

A friend of mine is a mechanic at the local Chevy dealer, and an '85 Vette owner. He had to replace his motor at under 100k, and the auto trans shortly thereafter. He told me the ZR-1's have a world of very expensive problems and to “stay away” from them. Now, he loves Vettes as much as I love Porsches, but even he acknowledges that they can require a lot of expensive work (like all performance cars, including Porsche).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> And if you think a n/a 996 compares favorable to a Z06 your criteria must be turning circle diameter or winshield wiper effiency. 'Cause a Z06 will trash a n/a 996 in EVER other measure of performance. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Exactly how are you measuring this performance Carlos? Have you even driven both cars? I have. Back-to-back. And, honestly, the Z06 is a bit faster, but not really that much. A better driver in a 996 will beat an average driver in a Z06.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> Now maybe that's a conspiracy & the keep all the problems secret but that's not what I think. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">There's not a conspiracy, just plain dollars and cents. GM has a lot more of it than Porsche, and they will probably get more favorable reviews of their products. Those publishers don't want to upset the largest automaker in the world, and their biggest advertiser.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> And as to the comments about the Ferrari or Lambo, I don't have enough experience with either to make a statement about their reliability. But you know what's nice? To get along side one of those mega dollar wonders & know you can hand him his *** if he gets in the throttle is a very good feeling. Very, very, very few Porsche owners know what that feels like. George is one of them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Well, for your information, reliability on those cars is for sh*t. Expect to spend about $10k/year on them. But so what? They're still awesome cars, and far more exciting to drive than most of what came out of Detroit.

I'd like to see George take a Diablo VT or a 575 in his swamp machine, but you're wrong about one other thing: Plenty of Porsche owners could hand a Ferrari his ***. Back in the day, a 930 would smoke a 308, the 959 topped the F-40, the 993 TT would take a 355, and all for less money.

-Sean

sschmerg

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> TP, dont let your heart override your brain. Here's the link <a href="http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zeroforum?id=49" target="_blank">http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zeroforum?id=49</a> go look for yourself. You see more problems on one screen of this forum than if 5 pages over there. The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hmmm. Interesting. So, you think this is a representative sample of all Corvette owners in the world and all their problems?

Well then, maybe Rennlist is a representative sample of every Porsche owner in the world. Or maybe it's just people who: (a) Have access to the Internet; (b) know about this web site; (c) actually have the time and inclination to read it; (d) actually went to the trouble to register so they could post; (e) most likely are only doing so because they have some problem they would like input on; or (f) all of the above, plus many more variables we can't even conceive of.

Heart overriding the brain, eh?

-Sean

Carlos

Yes Sean heart overriding brain. If you think a n/a 996 & a Z06 have comparable performance, you probably wouldnt be able to tell the difference between my 1100 hp weedeater & one right off the shelf at Lowes. So no need to beat a dead horse.

Here are some of those inflated numbers
'02 Z06 Black on black
Bone Stock
Best Run (stock tires): 12.168 sec @ 116.47 mph at 1700' DA, 540 miles, paper tags
Best ET (drag radials): 11.931 at 1905' DA
Best trap (drag radials): 118.2 mph at 1800' DA
Dynojet #: (SAE) 353 rwhp, 347 rwtq

With only Mod: Halltech Tric cold-air intake
Best Runs (drag radials): 11.556 @ 117.69 mph at 1200' DA
.................................................11.568 @ 117.94 mph at 400' DA
.................................................11.612 @ 120.54 mph at 62' DA
.................................................11.640 @ 118.57 mph at 300' DA
.................................................11.640 @ 118.16 mph at 400' DA
.................................................11.651 @ 118.44 mph at 450' DA
.................................................11.654 @ 117.87 mph at 500' DA
.................................................11.662 @ 118.46 mph at 500' DA
.................................................11.681 @ 120.21 mph at 100' DA
.................................................11.682 @ 117.72 mph at 450' DA

Best 60' (drag Radials): 1.647 [BFG 315.35.17 on 12" wide CCW wheels]
Dynojet #: (SAE) 363 rwhp, 350 rwtq [Tric rw: peak +10hp, +3tq; +9tq @ 4500]

These didn't come from Car & Driver but I'm sure they are part of the conspiracy.

sschmerg

Nice retort Carlos. If you can't understand how the publishers, who rely almost soley on advertising dollars to keep them in business, may want to appease GM, then you don't know how the world works.

And these numbers you provided prove what exactly? Where are the 996 test numbers under the same conditions, with the same tires, driven by the same driver, with equal experience behind the wheel of both? It doesn't appear you speak from experience here, so I'll ask again: Have you ever driven either of these cars?

-Sean

classic911

Just think, it only took GM 20+ years to come up with a vette capable of out-accelerating a Porsche. At least the Vette had decent cup holders longer than Porsche...

All kidding aside, the C5 Vettes are fantastic cars for the money, but like all high performance autos, they have their fair share of problems. The build quality is much improved over the C4s but still nowhere near Porsche levels. In addition, the Vette's racing history is a joke compared to Porsche's.

Let's face it, the performance available on Porsches, Ferraris, Corvettes, etc. is too much in our typical driving conditions, at least here in the metropolitan area.

Have any of my fellow New Yorkers noticed how many traffic cops there have been in the last 2 weeks? Wow, the City really needs the money....

Enjoy what you have.

Carlos

I have driven a Z06 but not the 996. The closest I've come to driving a 996 was abusing one with my 928. They are in different worlds. The Z06 is step for step with the 996TT. So go tell aTT guy that his car is only marginally faster than a n/a 996 & see what he tells you.

sschmerg

OK Carlos, let's bury the hatchet. I respect you.

I don't doubt the Z06 is faster Carlos, but it is not like the difference between a Miata and a Corvette, like you are making it out to be.

Also, according to "numbers" even a 993 TT should beat the Z06. Is that correct? Hell if I know, the only way to tell is get both of them out there and run 'em.

Out of curiosity, how did you abuse a 996? Around a track, 1/4 mile, or on the street? The 928s are sweet cars!

-Sean

George 911-V8

I can't believe some of the post on this thread. It makes some of you guys look like ya lived on a island for 40 years with no touch of the outside world, get real. Yes I did make 630hp at the flywheel with 93 amoco pump gas. Carlos is not making up these hp claims they are fact. I'm not new to the porsche world I have owned my carrera since 1993. I stay on top of every porsche mag and book I can read. I love porsche but just don't agree with some of these companys hp claims. No flames but I have seen all the big dollar turbo's at the shop in pieces only after a couple thousand miles. I know the motors are not bad they just can't take the abuse of street racing. I buzz my motor every time I drive it to over 7000rpm's without a problem. As far as how long it will last I don't know that answer due to I will change the combo way before it needs a rebuild. If you want to see how long a smallblock will go just ask a local cab company they will tell you about miles on a motor. I just saw a cab a chevy astro V6 he said had 265K without a rebuild he said he only changed the water pump at 150K thats not to bad.

George

Carlos

On the street. Straight line & around a big sweeper. 4 times. The guy apparently had trouble accepting defeat.

classic911

The 928s are sweet cars, that is how my Porsche quest started. I saw nice 87-88 cars with moderate mileage and I was going to do one in Long Island, but just about every 928 owner when I asked them why they were selling it was "to buy a 911/964/993/996".

I started doing more homework and found out about the high cost of ownership, ie timing belts, power steering racks, clutches, torque tubes, etc.
The 928 was years ahead of its time but time and high parts costs have not been kind to the 928.

Ironically, the guy I bought my 911 from bought a brand new red 2003 Z06 Corvette. Why? Because a new 996 was too much $$$. BTW, the vette is beautiful.

sschmerg

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> The guy apparently had trouble accepting defeat.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Most guys who can't drive do!

My bro and I have been considering an '87 928S4 auto that's for sale around here. Is your 928 stock, other than the couple mods you have mentioned there? How's it been on repairs?

-Sean

CamB

Yes I did make 630hp at the flywheel with 93 amoco pump gas.

Come on George - details please!

- any Chevy bits in there? Or is this just a SBC shaped engine (I mean is it all - block, crank, pistons, cylinders, heads, cams - aftermarket)?
- what's it idle at?
- what's the power band?

I think SBCs are good, seriously I do. I don't doubt the power output (as long as the rear wheel figure is 550hp or more). But I call *** on anyone who thinks a 100hp/litre, two valve motor is driveable down low. I've owned two 85hp/litre engines and they were fussy (both fuel injected too).

And Carlos:

CamB your coment on the nascar engines show how complete your lack of understanding is. So do you think that Porsches that race in the top classes just change oil between races? Or maybe every 2 or 3 races?

See Eds comment for an answer to that. I am surprised the Porsche motors get rebuilt so infrequently, although I did know they did 24hr races easily.

Besides, if you'd read more carefully, you would have noticed I said:

Err, yeah, but one engine only lasts a weekend worth of racing. This is irrelevant to street engines.

That sentence doesn't mention the frequency of Porsche race engine rebuilds (which is also irrelevant). We are, after all, talking about street engines, not race.

P-on

I have to go back to Carlos reference to the Corvette board. How many posts are there, and how many members, compared to the P posts? I couldn't find the answer.

I also have to say that Porsche owners are some of the most loyal, obsessive owners and therefore seek information more...thus more posts. Dig around the garden enough and you'll find more weeds Carlos.