longdillon1

Hi all Im new to this forum and am looking around to buy a 78-83 911 SC and want to know the difference between a US and EURO 911 SC. Ive searched and havent seen anything or I'm just blind.
Thanks,
Dillon

logan2z

There are lots of threads here an on Pelican that detail the differences between US and Euro spec cars. Using the forum's search function should turn them up. But the easiest way I know to identify a Euro car is via the VIN which starts with 'WP0ZZZ'.

duncan1437

if you're a complete newbie, like me, i suggest you be cautious of euro spec cars imported into the USA, since many of them had nonstandard ad hoc modifications to make them USA compliant.

for example, i just bought a 1981 euro car which had catalytic converters added in the distant past, but not the related oxygen sensor and computer. my mechanic said the converters would quickly clog without all of the related components. fortunately my car is not subject to emissions tests anymore, so the mechanic just gutted the converters.

i was quite naive and uninformed when i bought the car on ebay. it was represented as an unmolested euro spec car, when in fact it had an assortment of gray market modifications which can affect its value. i have bought the porsche parts catalog (CD rom) just so i can confirm if the various part numbers on my car (eg fuel distributor, warm up regulator, etc) are euro or USA.

it's a nice car, but i should have done more homework beforehand.

rusnak

Couldn't you just look for the DOT stickers, and the emissions stickers under the engine lid?

ked

here's a shot of a '85 Euro Carrera 3.2 that's fs over on Pelican. note the side marker light position, that's a quick external sign of euro car (if it wasn't added or deleted from a US spec car - anything's possible, & often happened to old Porsches). there are some books you might want to read to learn details on 911s & SCs... Zimmerman's & Frere's, among others.

whether a car is ROW or US, an expert ppi is the best way to separate the wheat from the chaff. happy hunting!

wpriller

The rear bumper guards are smaller on the Euro Spec cars.

whalebird

The euro cars make a little more power if they have been maintained and not had their injection combined with US stuff. Good ones are out there, but require expert inspection.

Edgy01

The ZZZ in the VIN is the only sure way to know. Years ago I added the side marker lights to my US spec car so if you use that as a conclusive criteria you will be in trouble. Also, for a few years the Euro SCs did not have the side markers.

whalebird

The zzz is part of every vin number stamped on the tub. A new window plaque would have been issued by the DOT upon certification. Every tub leaving the factory had a zzz in the vin. The window plaque was the market specific vin. There is a lot to know and I don't know all the details. I used to do some DOT conversions back in the late 80's when it was still a hot idea, and it was a grueling process. Also, I could see tons of ways cars could be fraudulently certified.

ked

"I could see tons of ways cars could be fraudulently certified"
& tons of them were.

Brett San Diego

The WP0ZZZ covers only 1980 and later cars with the 17 digit standardized VIN. For 78 and 79 911s the information is still in the VIN, but you'll need more information on decoding the VIN. Just google 911 VIN decoder, and I'm certain you'll find one.

Brett

whalebird

Even the vin is subject to speculation on grey market cars. You have to look at the whole car. A lot of them have a ugly bubble gum weld in the area of the door latch where the door beam was welded in and scorched the paint. But doors get replaced as do fenders and bumpers. Good euro cars are hard to come by, but they are out there. I again, reccomend an expert inspection.

race911

True, however none of those cars really ever came over here new. The 6-7-8 year old SC's that were shipped here during the exchange rate craze of the mid-'80's were, of the cars I usually saw, beat to hell. Corrosion, leaks, just a hard life. (Memory is fading, but wasn't there a stiff re-licensing protocol/expense for ~7 year old cars in Germany then that caused all but the best cars to be pretty much disposable?) And, they tended to be basic models we didn't see here-cloth interiors, no A/C, no sunroof (desirable today?).

Another data point (again, from memory) is that an '80-3 ROW car had an air pump that the US cars didn't with the 3-way cat and oxy sensor............right?

SC-targa

When I was a college, I worked in a lab that conducted federal emissions tests for gray market cars. It was a very competative business for the converters with very tight margins. They cut any and all corners to make a buck. Most of the cars would hardly run when they werwe modded to pass the tests.

I would be very, very careful about buying a gray market car.

The possible exception was an individual, one time exemption from EPA requirements. You still had to do the DOT, but the engine could be left alone.

andrew911

I know for 1978, the 5th VIN number says which engine is in the car. I know "3" is ROW, and I beleive "2" is us spec. Vin would start "911" as model, "8" as in 1978 model year, "3" as in ROW motor, "0" for coupe or "1" for targa, then the sequential number of the car.

My 1978 911 was a euro targa, and so the first 6 numbers were "911831", folllowed by the 4 digets of sequential production.

I think 1979 was similar but I am not sure...of course by 1980 they changed the VIN as mentioned above.

By the way, my car was as far as I know unaltered- it had H4 headlights, the smaller rear rubber bumper pads, NO BLINKER LIGHTS in the front fenders like most grey market cars had, no cats and the speedometer was in KM. No DOT stickers on it either. I bought it in 1988 and sold it in 1995 and still exists down in Georgia somewhere (saw it on ebay a few years ago and recognized the vin and was put into contact with the guy who bought it- amazing I saw it on there!)

Anyway, hope this helps!