Rob Heath

Did some searches and from older posts it looks like the Koni Sport (yellow) shocks are only adjustable if they are removed from the car and not "externally" adjustable (with a ****) like the fronts

On the Koni NA site two different Sport rear shock models are suggested for an '88 3.2 and one model - 8210-1159 says that the adjustment is

"Externally Adjustable. These dampers can be adjusted, literally at the turn of a ****, a technique borrowed from Formula-1 racing where KONI dampers have dominated the field for years. One can switch back and forth, in most cases in a matter of seconds, from a comfortable "touring" setting to a more firm setting for a sporty drive. By means of a **** damping forces can be altered to driving conditions or personal preferences."

Did some further checking and the Koni PDF on adjustment procedures from their site says that the 8210 series needs to be removed to be adjusted. ???

My shop thinks only front are adjustable with a ****... rear need to come off.

Was wondering if any one had Koni Sport rear with externally adjustable settings?

Will also call Koni on Monday.

Thanks !

bart1

I have Koni Yellows on my 968 and they are, as you are thinking, adjustable when mounted only on the front. Thr rears have to come off.

911tracker85

I just installed a set of Koni on my 85 911. you cannot adjust the rears on the car. you have to remove the dust cover, then pry up another cover on top of the shock. this exposes a little button you push/hold down as you turn the shock's rod. ironically the front and rear turn in different directions to adjust firmness.

Rob Heath

So I called Koni NA this morning and was told by Paul in the Tech Support area that the Koni Sport Yellow 8210 1159 as shown on the product selector for an '88 3.2 IS externally adjustable with the turn of a **** / without removal.

http://www.koni-na.com/cat_search.cf...=41&submit.y=9

There are two rear Yellow Sports shown, one needs to come out the other can stay in.

I'm going to order a set in the next couple of weeks, some new tires, etc. and will let everyone know what I think of them.

Rob

911tracker85

Rob,
your link to Koni intrigued me, since I just got a set for my 85. from a brief chat with Jason at Paragon Porducts, there is a difference in valving between those to different rear shocks. he may jump in here and provide more details.

he recommended to me the ones that cannot be adjusted externally on the car as they have stiffer valving. my 911 has 29/22 tbars and other suspension mods, and is mainly a DE/track car.

so be sure you ask a LOT of questions to be sure of any nuances in different options.

Good luck.

Rob Heath

Hey Thanks for the post on differences on the Koni rears. Was a subtle nuance that I had not thought through.

I re-called Koni tech support today and asked about the relative stiffness between the two Sport rear shocks for an '88, the series 30 (adjustable only off the car) and the 8210 (externally adjustable )... basically "When both fully adjusted firm are the 8210 and 30 shocks comparable in rebound firmness?" They did not have the data / rebound graph to give me an explicit answer... "Both Sport shocks are going to firm, but I don't have the relative data in front of me.. and the selling feature of the 8210 is that they adjustable in seconds on the car. The 30's have 3 clicks off the car and the 8210 have 3 turns on the car." Not really a great answer.

I am sure Paragon gave you good advice for your car.

My car is running stock suspension and is my daily driver so I have gone with the 8210 for the occassional DE / autocross that I do. Only have had opportunity to do 1 DE and 2 autocross since I got the car last year.

I ordered a full set of Sports with the 8210 rears from Shox.com, they were on sale for $672 for the set of 4 (no shipping $). I did talk to them to make sure that their adjustable rear shocks offered on the web were 8210 and they are.

Will get them on the car when I change over to summer tires some time end of March (when it stops snowng,) regardless of relative differnce between the two sport rear models they will be better than the old stock shocks that I have on now.

Now I just need to complete the 2nd set of Fuch wheels refinishing project (on of my winter projects) and figure out what summer tires to get.

Thanks !

Diamond Blue

I have the Koni reds with the external adjuster on the front. When set to full firm it is a very firm ride and can be jarring if I am on a bad road. I would like to have the externally adjustable sports on the back. I have had the rears set to medium and firm setting which they are currently on. Great at the track but is on the rough side on anything but smooth roads. It would be great to be able to turn them to the lowest setting for street driving.
If I need to replace them it will be with the Koni's again, red adjustable in the front and sport adjustable in the back.

KLehmann

There is an externally adjustable shock for the rear. I have them. They are the shortened body 8210-1159 yellow shocks. These are ideal for lowered cars because the shorter shock accomplishes a key goal- avoidance of the shock bottoming out because your car is lowered too much.

I ran these shocks with 31mm rear torsion bars on my '87. Car handled very nicely with them set to full firm. I got them from Jason at Paragon and he thought the valving would be reasonable for them. I turned my best times ever last year, so they certainly wouldn't be considered completely mismatched to the torsion bar spring rates.

Rob Heath

So I did end up having the yellow Koni Sport adjustable shocks put on front and rear, had the car lowered a little, new spring plate bushings, corner balanced, new summer tires and it drives SO MUCH better than original shocks and the all season tires I had on. WOW!

No changes to stock torsion bars.

Have kept the settings to "softest" sport setting and it is very noticeable / firmer driving on local street when I turned the shocks to "firm"

Trying to optimize my DE learning expereince and going to do my 2nd DE event this weekend (have done a couple of autocross) and was wondering if I should turn the shock firmness up?, leave it where it is?

I should be learning how to drive and at my stage not worry so much about car set up, but if something makes the car handle better (or makes it worse) it would be good to know and easy to change.

Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks!

sig_a

Regarding shock stiffness setting in suspension tuning:

Understeer Corrections
Front Suspension - Softer front shocks.
Rear Suspension - Stiffer rear shocks.

Oversteer Corrections
Front Suspension - Stiffer front shocks.
Rear Suspension - Softer rear shocks.

This is just one element in tuning, and full effectiveness depend on other adjustments to maximize results.

Reference:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/susp-15.htm (page 4)

Rob Heath

Sig_A thanks for the thoughts on setting shocks and the link. Had not really understood that before.

So my thought after reading this would be start the shocks adjusted mid-way to full firm setting.
Drive the car in the DE and see how it handles. With the mid-way setting I then can go either softer or firmer to adjust.

Thanks!

911tracker85

my experience matches Sig_a's comment. we were both at MidOhio as I dialed in my car with the Koni's.

new tires and the new shocks this year. I have had 22/29 tbars for serveral years, so the tire/shocks were the only change. and I had the car aligned and corner balanced with a bit of an aggressive alignment regarding neg cabmer.

with the fr/rear pressure equal to start, initially my car pushed a lot. started lowering the front pressure. then backed off the firmness on the front shocks. finally got a good balance.

also,
pushing = lower front pressure
oversteer = lower rear pressure.

regarding both shock setting and pressure. it is the 'relative' changes that influence handling. what I mean is if your tire pressure is already at the low edge of what it should be, you may need to increase the rear pressure to reduce pushing rather than lower the front to the point they are too soft and you see scrubbing on the sidewall.


to your questions about having the car set up correct. if it is not, it will definitely mess with your learning experience. struggling to compensate for a bad chassis setup would not be good during your inital learning phase. IMHO.

and now that I have expressed what I THINK is the correct way to adjust handling, I hope/expect the experts will provide more details/clarification.

911tracker85

hmm.... looks like I should have read that link first.

it says higher front pressure for understeet. but when I was asking a few good drivers at the track they suggested lowering front pressure and it worked for me.

it is an equasion with a LOT of variables.

good luck.

sig_a

First things first. Address the end of the car causing the problem. 911's are prone to excessive oversteer more than they are prone to excessive understeer. The paradox is excessive understeer condition sets up the excessive oversteer condition. As an example, overspeed into a corner causes excessive understeer condition where the front has weak or no contact patch/slip angle whereas the rear still does. "trailing throttle oversteer" means the rear end overruns (overwhelms) the understeering front end. Not good.