floete

Oops -- posted right after your post, G. Could you elaborate a little on what you think I should be asking for. Explain it to me as you would a child. I'm pretty dense these days ...

salukijac

Didn't know 911s had "basic PPIs."

Brett San Diego

Probably referring to PPI w/o compression or leakdown tests. I would say this would also not involve taking the time to remove valve covers.

Floete, still no mention of removing valve covers to check for head studs falling out. Compression and leakdown tests do not require removing the valve covers. If you want the head stud inspection, you should probably bring it up specifically with the mechanic just to be sure. I just realized I half answered your question back to G-50cab so I'll finish... The head studs are under the valve covers. When a head stud breaks (It's almost always one of the exhaust side studs.), the broken piece of stud and its nut and washer usually rattle out of the hole where the stud goes and sits loose against the valve cover. When you remove the exhaust side valve cover, the stud and nut literally fall out onto the ground. It's a very easy test. With the valve covers removed and if no studs fell out, one could then put a torque wrench on the studs to make sure they are torqued to spec. If they are loose or won't tighten down, that is a sign of the head stud pulling out of its anchor in the engine case. Pulling studs is a problem almost exclusive to the magnesium cased engines (1977 and earlier). Not usually a problem with SC's and later. Breaking studs is the problem with SC's and later.

If there's no pressure, take your time, get your PPI's and have more confidence in your purchase. Usually the best course, until you get to the point of paying for the 5th PPI, and you're still not finding the car you want.

I don't mean to imply to do what I say I might do. If I decide I want a car, PPI results are unlikely to change my decision (but certainly can provide some negotiating fodder if I were looking for some). But, given the information that a valve adjustment was performed 2,000 miles ago (and apparently no head studs fell out), and that the owner seems a "good owner," and that the car has 150,000 miles. I worry less about a head stud issue. As I understand, driven cars tend to have fewer head stud issues than cars that sit for long periods. It is believed to be related to the increased opportunity for corrosion on the studs on engines that don't get warmed up often to drive off moisture. With this car I would like my chances of not having a head stud issue. For other stuff, I have enough confidence in my ability to check myself. I would be skipping compression and leakdown, too, but if the engine feels good and delivers good seat of the pants power, those two are probably decent as well, but of course, there is no guarantee w/o the actual tests. That's the long explanation of my comments. LOL

Brett

Edward

You have to be clear/explicit about how a shop defines "PPI." Clealy, you are not getting a compression check and leakdown for $100. Some will give you just a peek here and there and call it a day ...oooh, looks like your tires are worn, sir. This is why a good, trusted Indy is critical here. Not only is a good shop knowledgable, but it is thorough. But ultimately, the individual requesting the PPI must be clear about what checks the shop will perform.

Edward

floete

Brett: thank you for the detailed explanation. I get it now. Whew! I'll definitely spring for the compression test and leakdown test but am still undecided about the headstud issue. As you say, there might not be a problem, given it had a valve job 2k miles ago. But no matter what it costs, the peace of mind might be worth it.

Edward et al: How do you specify what a PPI will contain? Should I email the Zimmerman list to the mechanic or what? I've also seen the checklist that's over at Pelican. Maybe I need to send both.

This isn't easy. But it sure is fun.

Thanks again, all.

TRINITONY

Send everything. and highlight the main ones/concerns.

Edward

Ha ...the Zimmerman List ...I like it!!

Yes, make it that clear ...I would, anyway. Any good shop/mechanic will see a specific list of "check items" as professional guidelines. A good wrench will understand you are doing your due diligence (they will understand it because they know how much they bill for said repairs). Any shop who gives you grief over a reasonable list of items is not a shop I would trust. And on that latter note, be certain the shop you choose has a good rep. with real street cred. Maybe ask around here?

Edward

Peter Zimmermann

The "Zimmermann list." That's pretty good, and, yes, give the list to any mechanic involved. If he gets his nose out of joint, tell him to cut you a little slack, and that the list comes from a good place!

$100 does not a PPI make, that's more of a walk around with the comment, "Yep, it's almost all the same color." $500 is closer to reality these days, and that will include removal of the lower covers, stud inspection, and gaskets/hardware. Don't forget to check the dates on those brake hoses; a great tip-off as to how good the service is that the car's rec'd!

g-50cab

Sorry _ i was away for a few hours -

And I'll say this again - IF I was going to buy an SC - and I could not talk directly to the dude that did the last valve adjustment - one that didn't have a dog in the fight - I would personally pay for a set of gaskets and include that in my PPI - for most other 911's not as big an issue -

$10K is a good deal for an SC = that's a lot of car for the money. Now add the cost of replacing the head studs (last I checked, 993 studs are about $40 a piece) plus labor @$100+/hour - plus the while you are in there and the $10K isn't that great of a deal anymore.

Brett and Edward are pretty spot on - obviously not their first rodeo

Brett San Diego

I don't think you should be undecided. It sounds like you want to de-risk the purchase as much as possible and are willing to pay for it. Soooooo, you should absolutely say that you want the valve covers removed and the head studs checked as part of the PPI. G50cab mentions buying new gaskets. When valve covers are removed, the gaskets are typically replaced. I hadn't thought about that, but good point. Expect to see a gasket set on the bill.

Brett

murphyjp

How much work is involved in removing the valve covers? Seems the peace of mind would be worth the added expense. Especially since the PPI is being split with the seller which is not common from my understanding. Seller seems like a stand-up guy who really wants to work with you until your comfortable with the car. Kind of restores my faith in humanity amongst all the riff-raff in the world.

floete

You're right, I really believe this seller is a good guy. And that this is a good car. And that a PPI would prove that out.

So, this morning I began wondering why I was dickering over a few hundred dollars. And I realized it's because the look of the car isn't really doing it for me. I don't find myself getting excited about it. Not good! So, I wrote the seller and told him I was pushing on.

At the same time, I asked him if he wanted me to pass his contact info on to any other potential buyers that I may know of. So, if you like this car and are interested in it, drop me a PM and if he gives me the go-ahead, I'll shuttle his info your way. BTW, location is Virginia Beach.

I also want to thank everyone here for putting up with me -- and giving me a great education along the way. I can't tell you what a great community this is. Rare and welcoming and helpful beyond words. Thanks again.

TRINITONY

If it doesn't give you a woody, pass on it. Else like every pcar owner, you will continue to look at ebay etc, and endup pissed when you see the one that 'talks' to ya. Unless of course you fall in love with the one that loves ya.....

GothingNC

Nice 83 Cabrio just showed up on CL in my area for $9,500

Let me know if you want me to check it out for you

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/1585861889.html

John

floete

Okay, if this one gives you a woody, do drop me a PM because the seller has given me the go-ahead to hand out his contact into.

(John, thanks for the offer, looks nice, but I'm hoping for a coupe ...)