anyone drove a sky or pontiac solstice ?
06-22-2009, 09:53 PM
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anyone drove a sky or pontiac solstice ?
here's the thing...
Anyone here who drove a solstice or sky ?
Just wondering how those air cooled 911 (1985-1988) compare with my beloved solstice.
Facts are that i own a eaton supercharged base solstice and i also love thoses old 911 (but never driven one). the point i am trying to make here is that it is a royal pain in the *** to lap my car around here with requirements for roll bars,broomstick test, +being a member of a club (porsche or bmw)is required around here to attend track days at the better race track.
although some vendors makes great parts for my sosltice, the aftermarket parts available for the porsche enthusiast does not compare at all as it is so huge, easy to obtain bolt on roll bars in different models from different vendors, lots and lots of big brakes kit. another + when you look at a modded porsche, it almost always look like normal and factory looking (even with race seats,roll bars loud exhaust)and thus seems easier to sell when the times come compared to a modded solstice.
thoses old 911 does not seem to depreciate much nowadays due to old age compared to my roadster. they even seems to appreciate in value for the last couple of years... ???
All in all, just wondering out loud if i should just sell the car and buy an air cooled 911. i love my supercharged solstice and i am not into the autocross stuff but man , i so wanna do laps regularly at an amazing track round here.
i am torn between those 2 cars. the hp to weight ratio are similar, both are excellent track performer...(solstices regularly win in ssb and t2 scca road racing series)
but to make them scca legal requires removal of the convertible top to install a gm carbon fiber top that has no seals, required gutting of the doors to install roll cage (no roll up windows !, cutting of the trunk lid for roll cage...)
so if anyone here has driven one and can comments on the pros and cons, your welcome to chime in
Anyone here who drove a solstice or sky ?
Just wondering how those air cooled 911 (1985-1988) compare with my beloved solstice.
Facts are that i own a eaton supercharged base solstice and i also love thoses old 911 (but never driven one). the point i am trying to make here is that it is a royal pain in the *** to lap my car around here with requirements for roll bars,broomstick test, +being a member of a club (porsche or bmw)is required around here to attend track days at the better race track.
although some vendors makes great parts for my sosltice, the aftermarket parts available for the porsche enthusiast does not compare at all as it is so huge, easy to obtain bolt on roll bars in different models from different vendors, lots and lots of big brakes kit. another + when you look at a modded porsche, it almost always look like normal and factory looking (even with race seats,roll bars loud exhaust)and thus seems easier to sell when the times come compared to a modded solstice.
thoses old 911 does not seem to depreciate much nowadays due to old age compared to my roadster. they even seems to appreciate in value for the last couple of years... ???
All in all, just wondering out loud if i should just sell the car and buy an air cooled 911. i love my supercharged solstice and i am not into the autocross stuff but man , i so wanna do laps regularly at an amazing track round here.
i am torn between those 2 cars. the hp to weight ratio are similar, both are excellent track performer...(solstices regularly win in ssb and t2 scca road racing series)
but to make them scca legal requires removal of the convertible top to install a gm carbon fiber top that has no seals, required gutting of the doors to install roll cage (no roll up windows !, cutting of the trunk lid for roll cage...)
so if anyone here has driven one and can comments on the pros and cons, your welcome to chime in
06-23-2009, 11:21 AM
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It is hard to compare the two. I have heard that the solstice is a pleasant car on the track. But so is a Miata. A boxster is arguably one of the best open cars made and has great track manners. I understand you want to do some track stuff and a coupe would expedite your entrance onto the track. A 911 coupe is as capable as any above mentioned cars, but comes at a price. A few things to consider:1. An aircooled 911 will be pricey to develop into a street/track car.
2. A 911 with a few modest suspension/exhaust mods will outperform most garden variety roadsters out there.
3. A properly owned/serviced/sorted 911 will provide many years of track/street service
4. Most likely you will recoupe a large part of the high cost of a nice 911 upon resale.
5. A weekend road trip to the mountains, brunch at the country club, and hot laps at Watkins Glenn are all easily done in the same 911 and will give you a smile after each.
6. The personal satisfaction of developing safe, skilled driving technique of a 911 is second to none.
7. The communitys surrounding the Porsche marque are the best. I belong to the Porsche Club of America(PCA), BMW, Mercedes Benz clubs and have now for many years, and the Porsche crowd is the best. I know this is subjective and you will see a bit of what I mean embodied right here at Rennlist -best group of car owners
8. After a 12 hour road trip in a 911, you will turn the radio off, roll down the windows and just listen to your 911 for the last 50 miles - it never gets old.
Welcome to Rennlist and keep in touch. The search and aquisition of a 911 is a life changing event and there are tons of really smart, really nice people on this board that would love to help. Give us an idea of where you are and maybe there are some Rennlisters that could give you local info about club meetings, track events, and a personal tour of their 911.
Good luck.
2. A 911 with a few modest suspension/exhaust mods will outperform most garden variety roadsters out there.
3. A properly owned/serviced/sorted 911 will provide many years of track/street service
4. Most likely you will recoupe a large part of the high cost of a nice 911 upon resale.
5. A weekend road trip to the mountains, brunch at the country club, and hot laps at Watkins Glenn are all easily done in the same 911 and will give you a smile after each.
6. The personal satisfaction of developing safe, skilled driving technique of a 911 is second to none.
7. The communitys surrounding the Porsche marque are the best. I belong to the Porsche Club of America(PCA), BMW, Mercedes Benz clubs and have now for many years, and the Porsche crowd is the best. I know this is subjective and you will see a bit of what I mean embodied right here at Rennlist -best group of car owners
8. After a 12 hour road trip in a 911, you will turn the radio off, roll down the windows and just listen to your 911 for the last 50 miles - it never gets old.
Welcome to Rennlist and keep in touch. The search and aquisition of a 911 is a life changing event and there are tons of really smart, really nice people on this board that would love to help. Give us an idea of where you are and maybe there are some Rennlisters that could give you local info about club meetings, track events, and a personal tour of their 911.
Good luck.
06-23-2009, 12:01 PM
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I have a 911 Cab (1984) and set up my dad with an '08 I think Saturn Sky Redline (Turbo). He has the factory-offered Borla setup on it as well.
1) Decently torquey, but not out of this world. My 911's way more fun. Power to weight is in the 911's favor, and I get 2 jumpseats too.
2) CAN'T SEE OVER THE FREAKIN' HOOD. Maybe I'm spoiled with the slanting nose of the 911, but I hated it. Dad's bumped a couple of cement parking stops too.
3) Brakes - leave a LOT to be desired in a 'sporty' car. Single-piston. My '84's brakes are FAR superior to the 25 year newer ones on the Sky.
4) 5-speed trans. Wish it had 6 to row through.
5) NO storage. I mean, NONE. They sell an add-on storage "trunk" which is ONE cubic foot, IF you've replaced your exhaust, you can cut a hole & drop in this "trunk" where your muffler was. No kidding. You can MAYBE get a small handbag (not a pocketbook, the little one) in between the seats. Not that you can get to it when driving.
My 911 has WAY more storage, top up or down. I have the front trunk and the back seats... can pack up for two to go away for a week if need be in there.
6) Seats supportive, but can't get them back far enough to be comfortable if you're tall & lanky. My 911 has way more room front to back, headroom too (manual seats in my '84).
7) Like the looks of the Redline / Opel vs the Solstice. But they don't compare to the classic lines of the 911. "That's cute" with the Sky. "Niiiiiiice ride" with the 911.
8) Information Display is a little funky, but you get used to it. Me, I got WW2-style cockpit in mine.
9) 18's. Honestly, they look a little BIG on the car. Wheels on mine look proportionate to me.
10) Handles ok. Steering was ok, a little vague to me. Steering & handling on the 911 - go-kart, even at 120+.
11) for ~$30k, not a bad car at all. Regular used Solstices are around $12-14k around here (guy at my work is selling one). For $20,000, I have just about the same reliability, more power, better resale value, better looks & feel, better handling. Yes, it's a used car. If it were my one & only car, daily driver, yeah maybe I'd consider a Sky. But then again, I wouldn't be, because it's too small for a daily, unless I had a pickup truck or something as a 2nd car, which defeats the single-car reliability bonus.
911 for the win.
1) Decently torquey, but not out of this world. My 911's way more fun. Power to weight is in the 911's favor, and I get 2 jumpseats too.
2) CAN'T SEE OVER THE FREAKIN' HOOD. Maybe I'm spoiled with the slanting nose of the 911, but I hated it. Dad's bumped a couple of cement parking stops too.
3) Brakes - leave a LOT to be desired in a 'sporty' car. Single-piston. My '84's brakes are FAR superior to the 25 year newer ones on the Sky.
4) 5-speed trans. Wish it had 6 to row through.
5) NO storage. I mean, NONE. They sell an add-on storage "trunk" which is ONE cubic foot, IF you've replaced your exhaust, you can cut a hole & drop in this "trunk" where your muffler was. No kidding. You can MAYBE get a small handbag (not a pocketbook, the little one) in between the seats. Not that you can get to it when driving.
My 911 has WAY more storage, top up or down. I have the front trunk and the back seats... can pack up for two to go away for a week if need be in there.6) Seats supportive, but can't get them back far enough to be comfortable if you're tall & lanky. My 911 has way more room front to back, headroom too (manual seats in my '84).
7) Like the looks of the Redline / Opel vs the Solstice. But they don't compare to the classic lines of the 911. "That's cute" with the Sky. "Niiiiiiice ride" with the 911.
8) Information Display is a little funky, but you get used to it. Me, I got WW2-style cockpit in mine.
9) 18's. Honestly, they look a little BIG on the car. Wheels on mine look proportionate to me.
10) Handles ok. Steering was ok, a little vague to me. Steering & handling on the 911 - go-kart, even at 120+.
11) for ~$30k, not a bad car at all. Regular used Solstices are around $12-14k around here (guy at my work is selling one). For $20,000, I have just about the same reliability, more power, better resale value, better looks & feel, better handling. Yes, it's a used car. If it were my one & only car, daily driver, yeah maybe I'd consider a Sky. But then again, I wouldn't be, because it's too small for a daily, unless I had a pickup truck or something as a 2nd car, which defeats the single-car reliability bonus.
911 for the win.
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06-23-2009, 07:21 PM
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i own that supercharged solstice and have a lot of fun with it, considering selling it and looking to buy a 86-88 911.
looking for input as i've never driven an air cooled 911 before and they are not available to rent
.looking for input on how the both cars compare to each other on a track.
as for power, with the aftermarket supercharger...,my solstice is pretty decent, lots of torque down low but before going any further with mods...i am currently giving it some thought as to still improve the car(stiffer suspension and sticky tires) or just remove the supercharger and intercooler, sell the solstice, call it the day(get stuck with the supercharger and intercooler) and buy a carrera.
but without driving it, i still have doubt that i will not be confortable in that what appears to be a cramped driving position, very noisy engine (sounds harsh in youtube video) and going from 18" wheels(solstice has decent 245-45r18) to 15-16" wheels on the porsche.
if it was not for the royal pain in the *** to try to fit a roll bar in my car i would keep it and be happy with it ,however there is no space to properly fit one and because of the roof design, one cannot have the roll bar high enough to pass the broomstick test with the helmet. otherwise i love the car.
still looking for comments, those earlier comments are greatly appreciated. thanks
06-23-2009, 09:56 PM
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Lots of issues - a few observations -
Talking new GM car vs relatively old school 911 -
The GM car is modern, for better or worse - more refined, less willing to let the driver hang it over the edge, heavier and slower in terms of responsiveness, more complex, less engaging in a visceral sense, something to commute in that might lend an aura of sport, but is determined to keep its occupants safe and comfortable. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Designed with conservative limits, and to keep people safe when those limits are approached. Trouble free to own and maintain. Applying the term "appliance" to it isn't inaccurate and isn't completely negative.
An older 911 is a completely different car. Primitive in many ways - that's not necessarily a negative, many of us value it. Noisy and harsh compared to contemporary products. Difficult to drive at the limit, in fact if you do, the possibility of hurting the car and/or yourself is real. The experience is much more visceral and raw than in a modern car. Decide for yourself it that is good or bad. Also, an almost infinite choice of performance enhancements. And also potential big dollars should you, for instance, miss a shift and zing the valves.
The discussion of wheel size is truly stupid. Wheels and tires that work very well on the track are available for any of these cars. If having the look of 18" wheels or whatever is that important to you, you really don't belong on a race track. Stick to cruise night on the boulevard...not that there's anythiing wrong with that.
This hasn't been mentioned, but it seems to me that a Miata is a far better choice for a combination street/track car than the GM platform. The Miata is highy track-proven and has all of the necessary parts readily and cheaply available. I've been on track with many Miatas, and I can tell you they are drivers' cars and great track cars. There's also a lot of oppurtunity to play with other Miata enthusiasts. I can't imagine choosing a Solstice/Sky over a Miata as a starting point.
Anyway, I'm enjoying my old school '71 911 Carrera RS clone, but if I had to swap it for something a Miata would definitely be on the list (not to mention that the original poster here would be very well advised to try on for size a well maintained 944S2 - on of the truly great all around cars).
Talking new GM car vs relatively old school 911 -
The GM car is modern, for better or worse - more refined, less willing to let the driver hang it over the edge, heavier and slower in terms of responsiveness, more complex, less engaging in a visceral sense, something to commute in that might lend an aura of sport, but is determined to keep its occupants safe and comfortable. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Designed with conservative limits, and to keep people safe when those limits are approached. Trouble free to own and maintain. Applying the term "appliance" to it isn't inaccurate and isn't completely negative.
An older 911 is a completely different car. Primitive in many ways - that's not necessarily a negative, many of us value it. Noisy and harsh compared to contemporary products. Difficult to drive at the limit, in fact if you do, the possibility of hurting the car and/or yourself is real. The experience is much more visceral and raw than in a modern car. Decide for yourself it that is good or bad. Also, an almost infinite choice of performance enhancements. And also potential big dollars should you, for instance, miss a shift and zing the valves.
The discussion of wheel size is truly stupid. Wheels and tires that work very well on the track are available for any of these cars. If having the look of 18" wheels or whatever is that important to you, you really don't belong on a race track. Stick to cruise night on the boulevard...not that there's anythiing wrong with that.
This hasn't been mentioned, but it seems to me that a Miata is a far better choice for a combination street/track car than the GM platform. The Miata is highy track-proven and has all of the necessary parts readily and cheaply available. I've been on track with many Miatas, and I can tell you they are drivers' cars and great track cars. There's also a lot of oppurtunity to play with other Miata enthusiasts. I can't imagine choosing a Solstice/Sky over a Miata as a starting point.
Anyway, I'm enjoying my old school '71 911 Carrera RS clone, but if I had to swap it for something a Miata would definitely be on the list (not to mention that the original poster here would be very well advised to try on for size a well maintained 944S2 - on of the truly great all around cars).
06-24-2009, 12:41 AM
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FWIW, I have a bolt-in roll bar for my '84 Cab.
The 911 is DESIGNED for what you want it to do, right out of the box. You're MODIFYING your street car. I have been there (can point you to my web page where I itemized spending $48,000 on buying & modifying a Taurus SHO to be a street / track car. It was a hoot, and an expensive lesson.
To buy a street / track 911 right now, I would go with an '84 Coupe, manual seats, rebuild the trans if needed, get the suspension updated / refreshed, make sure the brakes are proper, drop as much unnecessary weight out of it, roll bar, Recaros, 6-point harnesses to start. My budget would be around $20-$22k for this project car, in my mind.
Anyway, best of luck.
The 911 is DESIGNED for what you want it to do, right out of the box. You're MODIFYING your street car. I have been there (can point you to my web page where I itemized spending $48,000 on buying & modifying a Taurus SHO to be a street / track car. It was a hoot, and an expensive lesson.
To buy a street / track 911 right now, I would go with an '84 Coupe, manual seats, rebuild the trans if needed, get the suspension updated / refreshed, make sure the brakes are proper, drop as much unnecessary weight out of it, roll bar, Recaros, 6-point harnesses to start. My budget would be around $20-$22k for this project car, in my mind.
Anyway, best of luck.
06-24-2009, 06:56 PM
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incorrect,
made in delaware, tested and suspension tuned by GM on the nurburgring ( gxp and z0k clubsport suspension for scca ).
it goes like ,this base solstice has fe2 suspension
gxp has fe3 suspension and is roughly 20% stiffer
z0k is clubsport option for scca wheel to wheel racing and is rougly 20% stiffer than the gxp.
there is one guy round here (quebec, canada) that has a what is advertised has a mint ,extremely low milleage (rougly 30k milles) 1986 carrera coupe. original owner, full service and dealership papers to prove it. might want to have a look a it. still making my mind for now.(price is steep, 31k cdn$ non turbo)
don't want to harass the guy to do a road test for nothing.
Last edited by kappa8620; 06-25-2009 at 09:18 PM.
