RSWiser

Well my MSD unit is installed but I am not getting my starter to turn.

I think I wired everything correctly.

MSD Wires:
Larger Red wire to the solenoid with the big black wire on the solenoid.
Larger Black Wire attached to ground at the aluminum plate on the left side of engine bay.

Orange wire to + on Coil.
Black to - on Coil

Small red wire plugged into red wire on control unit plug.

When I turn the key, the seatbelt light buzzes and the Alt light comes on. I can hear the solenoid click but that is it.

Is it possible that the red wire to the solenoid is connected to the wrong terminal. I attached to the terminal that had the largest black wire attached to it. Is that the correct one?

Any input is welcome.
Rob
1980 911 SC

Auto_Werks 3.6

Rob,

Make sure that you didn't accidently drop a factory wire off the large pole of the starter. There should be two heavy gauge wires there. They are both "hot", one is the charge output from the alternator, and one is a direct lead to the positive pole on the battery. If you dropped the lead to the battery and only hooked up the alternator, the solenoid would click, but the starter would not have any power to turn.

Also, I think you might be one wire short on your description. I don't see a trigger signal in your description. It's the white wire on my attached picture (not porsche specific, just for reference). That wouldn't keep the starter from turning, but it would keep the car from running.

Auto_Werks 3.6

Rob, I guess it's worth mentioning that My charging circut is wired through the starter pole, which is the way my 944 was from the factory. However, I was glancing at some SC pictures, and it's not clear they did it the same way. My car is a 3.6 conversion, so I can't claim to know the entire wiring history. Just make sure that a solid 12v is getting to that starter, and that the engine ground is in place and clean... And also, not to restate the obvious, but make sure the battery did not run dead while you were doing your repairs.

RSWiser

Here is a recap:

In an effort to get my car to pass the emissions test (hydrocarbons at idle) I decided to install the MSD Ignition sytem.

Having read all of the threads on here I could find, the instructions, the 101 projects etc. I did the install.

Everything went well. I checked and double checked all of the wiring and connections.

I replaced the terminal end on the ground from the battery and made sure it is tight.
This was disconnected during the entire intallation.

When I turn the key, lights work, radio works, seat belt light works and buzzer works. But when I try to engage the starter, all I get is a click. I checked the connection on the solenoid (good). I moved the ground from the aluminum plate in the left engine bay to the engine part below and left of the distributor (sorry I am a novice mechanic and do not know what that is).

In addition to the information above, I installed the tach adapter, however the white wire from the MSD is still unused. I will double check the instructions.

Still no starter action.

I don't really want to have it towed to the shop (pride).

Can anyone give me some leads as to where I should be looking. Before the installation there were no starter or solenoid issues.

Thanks for your help.
__________________
Rob
1980 911 SC

theiceman

The MSD has nothing to do with your engine cranking .. and personally I think it has nothing to do with your emmisions passing but that is for another thread .

Sounds like you don't have enough juice to turn your starter motor. i would disconnect what you did and see if it will crank. Really the solenoid just routes current from the big *** wires on the battery to the starter motor. i would recheck the connections as suggested .. you only have 3 or 4 options here
battery, starter motor/ starter solenoid / connections. Theorhetically you should be able to shunt the solenoid conections and it should crank immediately.

RSWiser

Iceman,
It seems like I have plenty of power, lights radio, everything works but the starter.
Volts at batter are 12 but I am going to change the battery anyway because the one in there right now is about 18" long and hard to work with. The posts are on the outside and extremely difficult to get to.

How do I test the solenoid?

theiceman

Funny .. I used to have one of those boat anchors too. It is possible for all that stuff to work and still not have enough current for the starter motor. The starter motor is the single biggest draw. When you tried to start it did you have the lights on ? if you did and all the lihts stayed bright it is definitely a connection issue to the strter motor. If the lights went out you are draining your battery and not enough juice .

How long has it been sitting , could it be your starter motor itself ?
testing the starter solenoid is somewhat dangerous and should only be tested by the xperienced ( the way I do it anyway ) . If I were you I would just take the starter motor out ( the solenoid is atached to it ) and take it to one of those shops that do a free check. if it is bad get it rebuily by a specialist. Do Not trade it in get yours rebuilt.

This will also give you an opportunity to check the connections.

I have not had the one out on my 911 but on my Audi ( they should all be the same. ) There is a big *** current carrrying wire that comes directly from the battery to the starter solenoid. Then there is another wire ( usually braided copper on BOSH starters which is prone to corrosion and failure) that carries the high current from the other side of the solenoid to the starter. usually I just ake a big *** screw driver and bridge the connection from the main wire from the battery to the braided line. If the starter jumps to life you know it is your solenoid. ( keep in mind you are under your car and that is VERY dangerous. Doing this you may want to have the car braked , chocked or even jacked standed , and obviously out of gear.
Usually just whacking it ( the solenoid ) with a light hamer or wrench will free a stuck solenoid and get you going but it sounds like yours may be working. I would certainly try that first. If when you bridge it nothing happens you have a bad wiring connection from the battery ( usually loose connections at the battery post ) or your starter is pooched

Good luck

RSWiser

Iceman thanks.
I have been looking for an excuse to replace the Interstate anchor. So today I bought a 75/25 Optima Red top and a new ground #2 cable. Installed tonight.

Same result. With nothing on, just a click from the solenoid.

The car was starting and running good when I started the install of the MSD. I checked my solenoid connection, removed the cables, cleaned the ends and re installed.

I think tomorrow I will take your advise and remove the starter/solenoid. Looks pretty easy but very greasy. Should make the little lady happy to have grease in the garage. Typically I work on my cars at my shop but I can't start my car to get to the shop.


Thanks again.
Rob

theiceman

let is know what gremlins you find .

gbailey911

I recently went through the same sort of problem with my son's ford truck. Everything would work, battery was good, solenoid would click, but no start. After having the starter rebuilt, then replaced two different times, I had almost given up. I checked voltage to the solenoid and starter and both showed 12+ volts. I placed a jumper cable from the battery ground to the starter and still no start. Finally, after removing the big red (+) cable from the starter and jumpering from the battery + to the + lug on the starter, it started. I replaced the big red + cable and all was good again. Turns out when my son had his truck lifted, they stretched the + cable enough to internally damage the cable and not allow the huge amount of current needed to start the truck. Curious George that I am, I took the old cable and skinned all of the insulation off of the cable and there were no breaks in the cable. Conclusion was when the cable was stretched, it loosened the connector on the cable enough to not work, that along with the fact that the cable is 12 years old.

If you can't get a jumper cable to the + lug on the starter safely (grounding this hot lead is dangerous), buy a generic lugged cable, bolt it to the + lug on the starter and then jump from the + terminal on your battery to the other end of the generic cable.

Good lucK!

Auto_Werks 3.6

I agree, this would be my next step. I find it doubtful that the starter went bad while you did the MSD upgrade. Stranger things have happened though.

good luck, and keep us posted.

RSWiser

Thanks guys. This is so helpful to a novice mechanic.

Tonight I pulled the starter and took it to the auto parts store where they tested it.

Solenoid -- Good
Starter -- No Good.

Taking it to a good reputable rebuilder I have used before for other motors and they said they could have it done tomorrow afternoon. Unfortunately I will not be back in town until Saturday. Hopefully they are open saturday. Or maybe my wife will pick it up for me.

Is there anything I should do while it is out of the car?

Thanks again.

Rob
1980 911 SC

RSWiser

Ryan, Iceman.
Okay my solenoid and starter did need work. Now they are all rebuilt (new solenoid) and installed.

I have been checking my wiring for the last 2 hours. And Ryan I realized that you were correct I was missing the Trigger wire. Problem is I don't know where it is to go. The instructions are not specific on that. I am using the MSD Tach Adapter and it shows on the Current Triggers Tach, the Red Wire going to "Trigger Wire (Original Coil + Wire)"

If our tachs are Voltage Triggered it is different. But either way I don't know where the trigger wire is. Can anyone talk me through this.

Also are our tachs voltage or current triggered. I guess it makes a difference how you wire things.

Again I need your help.

Thanks guys.
Rob
1980 911 SC

Auto_Werks 3.6

Rob, I don't know the exact answer to your question off hand. Basically you need a trigger that will be operated by a signal from your distributor. I'm not sure if that uses the magnetic pickup (shown as not used on the diagram I posted), or the white wire. My car is running two 6A boxes triggered by the white wires.... but I am running a stand alone EFI with 964 distributors. I searched a little when you first posted and didn't find a good link for you, but I'll keep my eyes open. There is more information on Pelican BBS.

RSWiser

I talked to MSD tech and to a couple other guys who have done this and I think I have it figured out now.

We will see tonight.

Thanks for the info.

Rob