Gareth OC

Hi,

I have been looking at buying a 1983 911 SC and have had a PPI done. The car is perfect (body, interior, gear box, compression, paint etc) apart from an oil leak from the cylinder barrel gaskets.

The car has been sitting still for about 8 months and some oil has leaked onto the floor (see attached image). The mechanic has told me that once a major service is completed (includes re tightning the head studs) and the car is used the oil leaks around the cylinders should be minimal. The mechanic said that the engine is in great working order (155 psi per cylinder) and will be good for many years to come.

I cleaned the oil from the engine and took the car for a long drive. I did not notice oil leaking after the test drive.

Is this a common problem? Is this acceptable for a 911 SC? The car is fantastic apart from the leak.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Gareth

dave morris

First, that looks to be a Euro SC. Very desirable. It's got a higher compression/more HP motor than the US model. Believe it's 180 vs 204.

My SC motor doesn't leak at all. But some do. The pool of oil in your photo is certainly more (quite a lot more) than I would want. I really doubt tightening down the head bolts will solve the problem. Was the mechanic that looked over the car for you an experienced Porsche guy? 155 in EVERY cylinder sounds a little suspicious. Suppose it's possible, but normally I'd expect to see a few PSI difference somewhere. Anyway, I'd also have a leakdown done. A good mechanic should be able to tell you precisely what the source of the leak is and what it will cost to repair.

Euro SCs are very cool. Racers love 'em. Good luck.

abe

That looks like alot more oil than I feel comfortable with. I have an 83sc and leaked one to two drops when sitting for a week. This was probably coming from the valve cover seal since after doing a valve adjustment it now doesnt leak any oil. Engine has 107k. If the car is priced well I would do what dave said and take it to a mechanic for $ to fix.
abe

dave morris

Should have mentioned, get a copy of Peter Zimmerman's book.

rusnak

I want to say that oil may very well be leaking from the "triangle of death" (thermostat, oil pres switch/ breather). You have to suspect that right away if it's not from the oil return tubes, and you don't have a big hole in the crankcase. I doubt a compression leak is causing that much oil to drip out or you would be saying things like healthy motor to describe the car.

I'd clean that motor up and then begin looking for fresh leaks. I also agree that a car that just came from storage will leak more than one that is driven every day. Ask me how I know.

Gareth OC

Dave,

Thanks for your response. The car is actually an Australian delivered car. It has 160,000 KMS on the clock.

My mechanic is very well known in Australia. The actual compression figures are -

Cylinder 1 - 150
Cylinder 2 - 155
Cylinder 3 - 155
Cylinder 4 - 150
Cylinder 5 - 150
Cylinder 6 - 155

The mechanic said that by tightining the head bolts and using the car may reduce the leak. The mechanic has confirmed that the leak is coming from around the barrel gasket seals.

It is a tough call. The rest of the car is immaculate. The mechanic said that the engine is strong and expects the engine to run well for many years. The car certainly starts and drives extremely well.

To fix the leak however would require the engine to be stripped. It is hard to gauge the extent of the leak because most of the oil is probarbly due to a build up from over the years as the car has only been driven around 1000kms over the past 4 years. After cleaning the oil from around the engine and driving the car the engine remained dry.

I am not so concerned if there is a small leak over time if the engine remains strong for a few years. The cost to strip and rebuild an engine is very expensive.

Gareth

Ed Hughes

I'd assume the worst; the barrels will have to be pulled. Get your mechanic to quote that and start the negotiation. If the tightening trick doesn't do it, this oil leak will detract from your enjoyment of this auto.

Gareth OC

Rusnak,

Have you seen a 911 leak in storage and clear up after driving for a while?

Gareth

Ed Hughes

Oil leaks do not fix themselves. Quite the contrary, they get worse. Once the oil finds a route out, it doesn't "heal".

dave morris

Gareth,

That's very cool. You're in Australia. Ain't the internet something!

Back to the car, over here in the States, ROW SCs are "rare as hen's teeth". Guess all the SCs downunder are ROWs so that part of what I said earlier may be somewhat moot.

I would not expect a car that has been sitting around a lot to stop leaking oil just because it is driven. Could be, but probably unlikely. Nevertheless, based on what you've said, especially that the mechanic is so highly regarded, I'd say you might well have found a good car. A Porsche that is just driven on the street is amazingly durable, but they do need regular maintenance. I would agree that you should do your best to clean up the motor and determine precisely where the leak originates. Get an estimate of what will be required to fix it.

Gareth OC

Thanks for all your comments.

I actually have a copy of Peter Zimmerman's book. It does not go into to much details about oil leaks other than to check for them.

Does Peter normally respond to these posts? Is there a way ask for his comments on this issue.

Gareth

rusnak

Gareth, I have 4 Porsches, all of which leak something somewhere. They all leak when you pull them out of storage. They all leak less when you put them away.

The 911SC and the Carrera are bone dry on the motor, but the oil lines show seepage. That's how my cars are, but someone else's can be different.

It's better to deal with specfics rather than someone else's car, or in generalities. On your particular car, it's best to clean the motor top and bottom, then look for fresh oil leaks during warm up and after driving a short distance. Each source of oil is separate. You have to track each one down and deal with it. You'll find out which ones you can live with and which ones you can't. Then, your car will be it's own unique case of 911 oil leakage. It'll either be leaky, bone dry, or somewhere in between where I'd say 90% of us are.

theiceman

mine has a few drops after a run on a hot day .. it is between the chain boxes and the cam carrier. a 50 cent o-ring which wwould require cam timing and likely engine removal so I leave it . Everyones threshold of pain is different. The triangle of death can be fixed rrelatively easily, the oil return tubes are a pain in the *** but can be done, a real pain with the heat exchanges , case leaks and leaking at the barrels or head pretty well require a tear down ,
In general 911 leaks of this generation are NOT unusual .. there are some who say that if a 911 is not leaking oil .. it is empty .... although quite funny and not accurate , it still means a fair number of 911s leak and it would not stop me personally from owning such a fine car, but it would give me a little negotiating room.

Mitch Leland

Gareth,

My 2 cents says it's a money issue... I think fixing an oil leak is a lot easier than rust issues, bad upholstery, a dash board that's warped out of shape, electrical wiring that's been all cobbled up, etc. Like has been said before if you can find some negotiating room with your seller to pay for re-sealing the cylinders then go for it. You might get lucky and find that tightening the base bolts or a valve gasket replacement might save the day and you're money ahead.

You'll never come out whole anyway, so if you love the car and that's all you find wrong, take the leap... Looks like you have a special car...

abe

Funny, how these oil leaks are all relative. If you look just behind the red 83SC on the street...thats my 68 280SL. On the w113 site (MB Pagodas) the joke is that these cars came out of the factory leaking oil...so most people give up and accept it as part of life. The 83SC, however, occ drop after sitting there for a week.
abe