"Time running out on the development of the 911..."
03-27-2009, 11:16 AM
#31
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There was a Porsche engineer interviewed in a recent Panorama and he was asked if there would be a mid engine 911 and if they would race the Cayman. He said a mid-engine 911 is possible but they will not build it and that they would not race the Cayman because the 911 is THE focus.
when did Porsche stop going with what works and instead focus on empty 'image'?
Oh yeah, when the current CEO took over.
03-27-2009, 11:45 AM
#32
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I don't think it's so outlandish as to believe Porsche may be nearing the end of the line on 911 development. Porsche is now a stock value driven financial corporation. True, the 911 is what brung 'em to the dance, but she's getting a little tired, and the improvements are becoming more and more incremental at an accelerating cost. The only people still enamored of the 911 are the "oldsters" like us who remember the heritage, whether it was from being there ourselves, or learning about it from our families.
At Sebring this past weekend I was really struck by the demographic in the Porsche corral. The first was how "grey" it'd become. Most of the folks there were "old." I'm 57 and I felt like I was one of the younger ones there. The second was the number of young minority-owned/operated "tuner" companies there with tricked out 911s, Caymans, and Boxsters. Probably 6 or 7 of those companies there. Kind of reminded me of the Accura and Honda groups that are into the tuner scene. There were little what I call "middle-aged" folks there. Finally, there were a ton of Cayennes in the coral.
Racing is what made Porsche the marque it is today. But racing is now a much smaller part of its business than in the past. True, it wants to support racing, but not at the expense of being a profitable corporation. I believe this is evidenced by lack of a full-factory effort to reclaim LeMans overall victories, and instead building and supporting customer race cars at lower levels. Currently, it doesn't see an adequate business case for spending the resources required to keep the 911 competitive in racing against much higher-priced and more exotic niche cars. The 911 can never compete for overall wins again either. The 911 will always be raced, as GT-3 and Cup cars maybe, not as full-fledged top of the line race efforts. Alternatively, there's nothing to keep Porsche from re-badging the replacement platform as a 911. The 911 has morphed before, maybe not quite to this extent, but the 997 is a far cry from the original 911s. Everyone said water-cooling would be the end, it wasn't. It might not be this time either.
I'd love to see a mid-engined 911 brought to the market. With the Cayenne V-8 I think it'd be an Uber-super car. Unfortunately, until all of this economic mess gets straightened out, the consumer has the confidence to buy and the banks have the confidence to make loans again, we won't see much new from our beloved brand.
At Sebring this past weekend I was really struck by the demographic in the Porsche corral. The first was how "grey" it'd become. Most of the folks there were "old." I'm 57 and I felt like I was one of the younger ones there. The second was the number of young minority-owned/operated "tuner" companies there with tricked out 911s, Caymans, and Boxsters. Probably 6 or 7 of those companies there. Kind of reminded me of the Accura and Honda groups that are into the tuner scene. There were little what I call "middle-aged" folks there. Finally, there were a ton of Cayennes in the coral.
Racing is what made Porsche the marque it is today. But racing is now a much smaller part of its business than in the past. True, it wants to support racing, but not at the expense of being a profitable corporation. I believe this is evidenced by lack of a full-factory effort to reclaim LeMans overall victories, and instead building and supporting customer race cars at lower levels. Currently, it doesn't see an adequate business case for spending the resources required to keep the 911 competitive in racing against much higher-priced and more exotic niche cars. The 911 can never compete for overall wins again either. The 911 will always be raced, as GT-3 and Cup cars maybe, not as full-fledged top of the line race efforts. Alternatively, there's nothing to keep Porsche from re-badging the replacement platform as a 911. The 911 has morphed before, maybe not quite to this extent, but the 997 is a far cry from the original 911s. Everyone said water-cooling would be the end, it wasn't. It might not be this time either.
I'd love to see a mid-engined 911 brought to the market. With the Cayenne V-8 I think it'd be an Uber-super car. Unfortunately, until all of this economic mess gets straightened out, the consumer has the confidence to buy and the banks have the confidence to make loans again, we won't see much new from our beloved brand.
03-27-2009, 12:07 PM
#33
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I don't think it's so outlandish as to believe Porsche may be nearing the end of the line on 911 development. Porsche is now a stock value driven financial corporation. True, the 911 is what brung 'em to the dance, but she's getting a little tired, and the improvements are becoming more and more incremental at an accelerating cost. The only people still enamored of the 911 are the "oldsters" like us who remember the heritage, whether it was from being there ourselves, or learning about it from our families.
At Sebring this past weekend I was really struck by the demographic in the Porsche corral. The first was how "grey" it'd become. Most of the folks there were "old." I'm 57 and I felt like I was one of the younger ones there. The second was the number of young minority-owned/operated "tuner" companies there with tricked out 911s, Caymans, and Boxsters. Probably 6 or 7 of those companies there. Kind of reminded me of the Accura and Honda groups that are into the tuner scene. There were little what I call "middle-aged" folks there. Finally, there were a ton of Cayennes in the coral.
Racing is what made Porsche the marque it is today. But racing is now a much smaller part of its business than in the past. True, it wants to support racing, but not at the expense of being a profitable corporation. I believe this is evidenced by lack of a full-factory effort to reclaim LeMans overall victories, and instead building and supporting customer race cars at lower levels. Currently, it doesn't see an adequate business case for spending the resources required to keep the 911 competitive in racing against much higher-priced and more exotic niche cars. The 911 can never compete for overall wins again either. The 911 will always be raced, as GT-3 and Cup cars maybe, not as full-fledged top of the line race efforts. Alternatively, there's nothing to keep Porsche from re-badging the replacement platform as a 911. The 911 has morphed before, maybe not quite to this extent, but the 997 is a far cry from the original 911s. Everyone said water-cooling would be the end, it wasn't. It might not be this time either.
I'd love to see a mid-engined 911 brought to the market. With the Cayenne V-8 I think it'd be an Uber-super car. Unfortunately, until all of this economic mess gets straightened out, the consumer has the confidence to buy and the banks have the confidence to make loans again, we won't see much new from our beloved brand.
At Sebring this past weekend I was really struck by the demographic in the Porsche corral. The first was how "grey" it'd become. Most of the folks there were "old." I'm 57 and I felt like I was one of the younger ones there. The second was the number of young minority-owned/operated "tuner" companies there with tricked out 911s, Caymans, and Boxsters. Probably 6 or 7 of those companies there. Kind of reminded me of the Accura and Honda groups that are into the tuner scene. There were little what I call "middle-aged" folks there. Finally, there were a ton of Cayennes in the coral.
Racing is what made Porsche the marque it is today. But racing is now a much smaller part of its business than in the past. True, it wants to support racing, but not at the expense of being a profitable corporation. I believe this is evidenced by lack of a full-factory effort to reclaim LeMans overall victories, and instead building and supporting customer race cars at lower levels. Currently, it doesn't see an adequate business case for spending the resources required to keep the 911 competitive in racing against much higher-priced and more exotic niche cars. The 911 can never compete for overall wins again either. The 911 will always be raced, as GT-3 and Cup cars maybe, not as full-fledged top of the line race efforts. Alternatively, there's nothing to keep Porsche from re-badging the replacement platform as a 911. The 911 has morphed before, maybe not quite to this extent, but the 997 is a far cry from the original 911s. Everyone said water-cooling would be the end, it wasn't. It might not be this time either.
I'd love to see a mid-engined 911 brought to the market. With the Cayenne V-8 I think it'd be an Uber-super car. Unfortunately, until all of this economic mess gets straightened out, the consumer has the confidence to buy and the banks have the confidence to make loans again, we won't see much new from our beloved brand.
Porsche is losing races on purpose. They are losing races because they choose to lose races. They are more interested in marketing the 911 to ancient people than to develop that new following in the tuner/younger crowd.
We were attracted to the 911/930s because they were so damn exciting way way back in the day.
Now the 911 series is just a bloated pile of generic looking crap (IMO) which is not cutting edge, not exciting, and not as fast as most sports cars out there anymore (especially for the money).
Yet Porsche has the mid engine chassis collecting dust and the V-10 sitting under a blanket in a shop somewhere.
The only conclusion I can draw is that Porsche doesn't want to win anything if it intereferes with their 'IMAGE'.
03-27-2009, 01:24 PM
#34
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Not an expert but it seems to me that many companies have real challenges to keep the bottom line. Unfortunately, investments for the future dont seem to be as important as they used to be. I bought my first porsche when I was in my late forties and now have two. What hooked me was watching them race at LRP in Connecticut in the 70's and 80's.
It would be a real shame if the 911 went away.
It would be a real shame if the 911 went away.
03-27-2009, 04:05 PM
#35
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Of course the 911 format "could" win, even today.
I mean 930 is nothing like a 935 and the same thing all at once.
Originally it was about winning with less, and now they couldn't have less even if they wanted it.
If they can do the CGT, then they can do whatever they want. The trouble is that no-one can afford the CGT.
Personally I want to see a rear engined Cayman, but I doubt it's gonna happen!
I suppose that's the thing about winning.... What do you do afterwards? I guess you take a rest, and do it all again.
I mean 930 is nothing like a 935 and the same thing all at once.
Originally it was about winning with less, and now they couldn't have less even if they wanted it.
If they can do the CGT, then they can do whatever they want. The trouble is that no-one can afford the CGT.
Personally I want to see a rear engined Cayman, but I doubt it's gonna happen!
I suppose that's the thing about winning.... What do you do afterwards? I guess you take a rest, and do it all again.
03-27-2009, 04:59 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
OK here's my theory: Porsche has or will have a majority stake in VW. This includes Audi. Audi have dominated Sports car racing for the last decade or so. Why would Porsche develop a car and compete against itself (Audi)? i.e. Death of RS Spyder...... What I think is going to happen is Porsche will let Joest and Audi continue to develop the R15 throgh to the next ACO rules change then roll out the next generation Audi but ALAS..... it will be badged as a PORSCHE!!
Discuss!!
Discuss!!