stay6

Thanks Doug for your insight. So,,,,,,If my car is operating correctly (factory standards) there would be no increase in the 'butt dyno" if I installed an aftermarket chip?

stay6

Thanks to all of you that have responded to my inquiry about the chip. I really appreciate your sincerity. I have wanted a Porsche since I first new they existed in 1957, I had a good time in a '289 Mustang from '64 and had a fling with a '57 "vette" briefly in the late '70's. Finally got my 'baby' an '84 Carrera Cabriolet in '05. She had 59K mi. from the original owner and all records. Life is good. Can it be better?????? Therefore, my chip question. I am still in a quandary.

stay6

So,,,,,, after all this Loren, what do do you have to offer me.

rusnak

jeeeezuuuussss...

Might as well go for the Trifecta:

What motor oil is best?
Should I buy a K&N air filter?

stay6

Why,,,,,,, is it so difficult to get a simple answer to "what is the best chip replacement"

rusnak

you can get many simple answers, and as you can see, each one is different.

I suggest you take Loren's advice and invest in a DE course. NOT BECAUSE I AM DEFENDING LOREN, but because it makes sense.

Pressing the issue as you have will not sweat any new info out of Loren, or anyone. If you want, go look at the Pelican site. Google 911 performance chips, go to www.911chips.com. It has been discussed many times and caused a lot of debate. I'm afraid no new wisdom is to be gained now, here, in this thread on this particular subject. Almost any other subject can get you a fairly straightforward reply.

BTW your '84, depending on the month of manufactur, may not allow you to do a simple chip swap anyway. Go to the sites I mentioned.

84_Carrera

It would be wonderful if there is a simple answer. The truth is, you can get the best manufacturer out there, the best chip manufacturer out there and end up with a tune that's not right for your car.

1) Go to the dyno, get a baseline with air/fuel ratios. That gives your chip manufacturer some insight about your car, and may show you that there's something amiss - if you're not getting what you're expecting for power to start with, no sense in going further until you address the problem. For example, you may find you're 10-20hp dropped at the start, due to an old catalytic convertor. You may see ignition jitters like one of my graphs does & might need to swap the plugs & wires, etc. Know where you're starting from first. It's all of $100 tops, and you'll KNOW instead of relying on the butt dyno.

2) read about the different options. Some vendors tout their setup as adding 10hp, and you'll find 50 people who tried it & know their stuff is junk. The big thing I've seen about Steve Wong's chips, for example, is the info about what's going on with your DME (24-pin / 2k mem, up to 28-pin / 8k mem, for example), and the driveability, on top of power increases. Remember you're going to sacrifice SOMETHING, otherwise it would have been incorporated from the factory. Me, I gave up a couple of mpg's with some of the changes I've done, and I have more noticeable idle-surging. When I go to do the Steve Wong chip, I'll be sending my DME to him, having him modify for the 28-pin chip, and going that way. I'm also going to pay the extra money for a custom chip vs. an off the shelf, for a bunch of the reasons I mentioned already.

3) Dyno after. Ideally, you install the chip at the same time as you dyno, so you don't do any damage getting there with the new chip installed. We did a SHO chip on the dyno with an 80mm MAF combo, the chip was programmed for the MAF, and we expected good things out of the box. As it turned out, the car ran VERY lean - 18:1 - and I told him to shut the car down & send the chip back for reflashing. We checked for vacuum leaks, found nothing, so he did send it back, and the reflashed chip came back with the "same" program, and this time he was running in the 13:1 - 14:1 range, more in line with where he wanted to be. Yes, "wasted" dyno time, cost him $100, but saved him from burning the thing up.

spence88mph

Excellent advice 84_Carrera!

Vino

+1

Not many people like to dyno their cars but it is nice to have a baseline where the car is at and find any lost HP first if it's not up to stock levels.
I am sure things have changed over 20 years that can be improved without doing harm to your motor.

Not a cheap motor if it hits the crapper

Ed Hughes

Once again the L-man makes the arguement to actually go with a re-mapped chip. He explains the reasons that they do work. Yes, they change timing, which results in some kind of increased octane need. The simple fact is, that playing with timing and fuel are timeless ways to bump more power out of an engine. The simple fact is that those of us with DME's only can do this with a re-mapped chip!

Nobody thinks that there is some kind of other "magic" at work!

I cannot argue your last point-the nut behind the wheel is often the limiting factor in a 911's performance.

Ed Hughes

I'm surprised at that statement. Having just moved back to Calif after being in the Maverick PCA (DFW) region for 5 years, I enjoyed many a DE with that group. They do have a wine and cheese crowd, but the track nucleus is second to none with a lot of guys doing regular DE's. 5 run groups based on your ability primarily-driving skill is the great equalizer. Couple those with the Lone Star region's DE's @ MSR, and now Eagle's Canyon (& BMW events too), you can track to your heart's content without turning into a racer. You can stay in the DE mode, or move to the club race sect too.

Ed Hughes

You will get some butt dyno improvement, IMO. The other thing that many notice is overall better "driveability"-that is to say it is smoother off the line and thru the gears.

You did get your simple answer: Steve Wong. www.911chips.com

If you go on Pelican where there are simply great numbers of enthusiasts, you'll see this same answer about Steve's product/service over and over. Oh, and you'll see the periodic skepticism from "He who shall be unnamed".

Amber Gramps

Do we have to write the check too



84-86 911 premuffler/cat bypass exhaust
$350
engines modified with cat bypass-europremuffler and/or sport muffler. Combine with our premuffler for best results.

rusnak

That is actually a good point, DB.

Better question to ask would have been "what performance mods should I do, and in what sequence?"

I still say drivers ed/ driving school is dollar for dollar the best money spent,
but after that, tires, performance alignment, cat bypass, shifter. A chip is way down the line, and should be considered toward the end of your bolt on mods IMO.

Lorenfb

"Once again the L-man makes the arguement to actually go with a re-mapped chip"

Never said that nor implied such! Try re-reading the post again.
To be more explicit, using a "performance" chip really has minor
to no real effect other than placing the engine at a higher risk of detonation,
especially for the antiquated 3.2 engine management system without knock
sensors.

Why risk engine damage under many conditions for the marginal results
claimed? Just read the many threads on the "dark side" of the know-it-all
DIY tuners who have little to no understanding of basic engine dynamics but claim
to be in-the-know about performance tuning as is the case for those that sell
"performance" chips. "Performance" chips have been available for the last
20+ years with the same results, i.e. an easy sell and a basic waste of money
that risks engine damage.

Once again, a "performance" chip is a performance" chip is a "performance"
chip, i.e. Which is an easily sell to the many naive with the easiest and best
profitability of any aftermarket automotive product. Just make a claim
that for many is difficult to disprove or has a psychological/placebo effect,
and the money starts "rolling in". Especially when you have most purchasers
that lack even more than the "tuners" in basic engine dynamics and join
the "herd" mentality to send their money.

Bottom line: Street tuners know more than Porsche did? Please!!!!!!!!!!