TC_SJ

Hello All:

Have any one in this group has convert the AC system from R12 to R134 yet and what is the result ?

Thanks
Tan

Drew_K

I just had my 92 C2 converted from R12 to R134. It cost about $200-$300 in labor and involved about $100 or so in parts. I can check my receipt if you want to know the exact cost. It seems to work just fine in the 90 degree weather in my area, although I can't compare it to the R12 since I was in need of a freon recharge prior to having it converted.

My understanding is that R134 doesn't cool quite as well as R12, but the converted A/C has worked fine even when the car has been sitting outside all day. The best part of converting is having to pay only $15 per pound for R134 as opposed to $64 per pound for R12.

911 A/C systems tend to leak freon and need almost annual recharges. A conversion can pay for itself pretty quickly.

craigg

I had my '84 converted to R134 2 years ago - and had to recharge last year. When I was R12, I recharged every year anyway, so the smaller molecular size of R134 is a relative non-issue. As for cooling, it does "OK", as the early mid years weren't all that great due to the dash vents being small aand such, but I would say it's fine. And the replacement cost is an issue. By the way, I am in Canada and apparently R12 is simply not sold - no matter what. I had no choice. And it gets well into the 90's F here in Toronto so I would notice.

craigg

Oh yeah, it cost me about $250 in US dollars, all in.

MarkP

Has anyone heard of a R12A conversion. I found a place that will do it for $90CDN ($60US). Apparently it does not require any part changes.

I would like to get more information on R12A before getting this done.

TC_SJ

I live in the Bay area Northern CA, temp in summer here about 85+, would any one recomend any shop in the Bay Area that know how to do the AC convert to R134

Thanks

Bill Gregory

I considered converting my 81SC, and after talking to several a/c people, the consensus was that I should change the hoses to barrier hoses and change out some of the hardware. Estimate was around $1000 to "do it right". Since I had other things I could spend that money on, I just took the barely functional a/c out.

MarkP

More information on R12A conversion if anyone is interested

<a href="http://www.delsupply.ca/" target="_blank">Glacier GOLD 12a Refrigerants</a>
<a href="http://www.delsupply.ca/" target="_blank">http://www.delsupply.ca/</a>
<a href="http://www.freon-r12-replacements.com/refrigerants.htm" target="_blank">AutoCool-Refrigerants</a>
<a href="http://www.freon-r12-replacements.com/refrigerants.htm" target="_blank">http://www.freon-r12-replacements.com/refrigerants.htm</a>

I'm thinking of going with the R12A as it will save $.

Comments?

david914

Has anyone tried R12A yet? It almost sounds too good to be true. Anyone inquired about pricing and importing to U.S.?

Jim Michaels

If it sounds too good to be true ......

There was a discussion of R12a not long ago. We were sent to a commercial R12a web site. Of course, they did make it sound attractive. Someone commented that Porsche did not approve such a conversion, but then Porsche never approves anything that's cheap. There's apparently a stigma attached to low cost.

procooler

hi guys,

with 134a you will generally lose about 20% in temps over 90 degrees.

the majority of losses are condensor related. while larger condensors do help, in hot weather when you are stopped or in slow traffic, you are trying to cool a 100 degree plus condensor with 100 degree plus heated air from the road or engine. very little heat exchange going on there. the result is warm air from the vents.

check out <a href="http://www.procooler.com" target="_blank">www.procooler.com</a> for another alternative to solving your a/c problems.

ron maxwell
rennlist member

MTodd

Those R12a websites refer to it as a "Hydrocarbon Refrigerant".

I recall a thread where someone seriously suggested using propane as an R12 substitute and someone knowledgeable about a/c really had some strong words against it.

As a hot Texas resident, I have asked several P-mechanics about a/c - it seems the only consensus about what works is the additional condenser. It would be nice to hear from someone who has gone this route.

SonnyV

Hi all,

I just have my '92 C2 Turbo' s AC charged with R134a. From my understand, my car had the R12 before this and never really worked in the last two years. It was low on freon.

I went to this local AC specialist in Santa Ana. I asked the owner a few times about converting to R134, and he assured me of there is nothing to change (no parts to replace). I came back today to have the freon charged. It cost under $120. I saw that they added a special "oil" to the compressor, the R134a freon, and something else that I can't read from the workorder (a fuse I think). That was it.

I now have working AC although it is not very very cold, but it works well enough. The air comes out of the center vents is about 52F and outside temperature was about 84F and the car was sitting in the sun for a while. Is this about right?

I drove a 30min home with the AC on and it worked quite well after a while. The interior temp was comfortable. I would love to have the center vents point to my face but the angle is a little too short. The left vent is more closer to the face if you play with the adjustment angle. The AC never worked before so I can't tell for sure how cold it supposed to work. I think it is more than adequate now.

So, here is the question. Is there a problem with what I did ( with out changing to proper parts)? The work was done is guarantee for 30 days.

Regards,

Sonnyps: Sorry for the long post.

Steve W

Propane with 20% isobutane works great as a R12 replacement. It is actually more efficient than R12. I use the mix in my vehicles, and I know other Porsche owners who do too with great success. You won't hear much from them here because they want to avoid being flamed as I was when I initially mentioned the alternative. It seem the only people who are strongly opposed to it are those in the automotive AC industry, for it obviously detracts from their business. I mean, how much can you charge a customer when you charge their car with $1 worth of propane? Those that oppose it site the flamability of the gas, however we are talking about 12 oz of propane compared to about 100 lbs of gasoline. Propane is fairly difficult to ignite, especially when it vents as a liquid and purges completely within a couple of seconds in the event of a collision. Want to know more?

<a href="http://www.vettenet.org/acfaq.txt" target="_blank">http://www.vettenet.org/acfaq.txt</a>

TC_SJ

Hello Sonny:

My friend own a 91 Toyota, 3 years ago he has done exactly as what you did to your car, I do not recall he mention about the oil being added like what you said. The AC work fine for year and after that everything start to broke in the AC system, cost of repair = $1300.00

The other day I stop by a local shop and ask'em can will they perform AC convertion R12 to R134, I got the same reponse. No need to do any thing just pump in R134. I said Huh ...

I am still very skeptical about this, may be now the shop must do something different and possible work better than 2 years ago