bob b

I'm shopping and curious why the price discount on newer cars. On paper with the features, larger motor, hydraulic clutch, air bags, new trans, etc. you'ld expect to pay more. Is it just apreciation of the 80's cars or is there something I don't know? Bob

GothingNC

Are you asking about the 993's or 996's?

John

Marc Gelefsky

Hi Bob, and welcome to Rennlist!

I think you are talking about 964's, The 90-94 cars (and 89 C4)?

They are great cars and give you a modern updated 911 with the classic looks, Take advantage of the depreciation of them!
I guess the 993 (95+) is the more desirable "modern" air cooled car and the pre 90's are the last of the "classic" 911.

Edgy01

I would say that the less desirable car would be a 1990 Carrera 4. As a 4WD car the system that controls that 4WD is extremely complex,--perhaps a little too complex. Later, Porsche would redesign them for simplicity and reliability. The 964s were a bit too much like the 959s and thus highly complex and expensive to fix. Many of the cars from that generation are now coming up on high repair bills and owners are trying to get out from under them. The complexity was nonexistant on a 1988 for example, and coupling that with high reliability, makes for a more desirable auto on the used market.

Fast forward to the 993 and you get a more desirous styling with lesser complex mechanicals and the last of the air cooled cars,--that all adds up to a higher price which demonstrates the demand is higher around there.

Edward

Hi Bob,

I think you are referring to (as mentioned already) the 964, which was available here from 90-94, in C2, C4 (AWD), and Turbo. The early 964s (90-91, IIRC) were dogged by engine leaks, a number of flywheel issues, and such which have created a "reputation" of poor cars (unfairly, IMHO). But I have to disagree with Dan a bit and say that they are not overly complex that everything on them breaks down (this ain't no MB ). Personally, I'd avoid the AWD as it's not biased enough to the rear wheels, but a sound 964 is certainly no more complex than a 993 (which enjoys a very good reliability reputation), but is of course more complex than the 911s before it.

Moreover, the 964 is commonly viewed by the marketplace as not the "Classic" 911, which is why 89-earlier cars enjoy so much popularity, as the high prices they still command can attest --these are the "last of the classic 911" so to speak, or this is how many perceive them, anyway.

OK, so that explains the low prices. My personal opinion is the 964 is easily one of the best, if not the best bang-for-buck 911 you can get, in large part because of the features you mention. The 3.6 engine, HVAC that actually works, coilover suspension, and the list goes on. It really is a "more modern" iteration of the "classic 911" that was its predecessor. Which model is better is up to you, but IMHO the 964 is arguably the better daily driver to its earlier siblings while still offering you all that 911-goodness that makes the car special. Now don't get me wrong, I love the early cars too for their simplicity, direct feel, and sheer "sportiness" that is so lacking in most all later cars (I have an SC that is my Trackmeister) ...they are more raw and visceral, which is their appeal; that and the signature 911 lines. I think of my SC like a time machine into past 911-racing heritage ...ok, maybe that's a bit much, but that's how stupidly emotionally attached we owners get over these "earlier" cars.

Back to the 964, most of the issues that spawned their rep for "unreliability" have been resolved by this time, by the owner or factory. So if you like the looks, of which I do, it's a great car. Sidenote: funny thing about trends ...there was once a time when 964 body kits were all the rage to "update" those "dated" 911s (especially for track cars) ...interesting how "dated" became "classic," and "modern" became "ugly." Eye of the beholder, eh? Visually, it really is an in-betweener to its predecessor and the 993 ...what's wrong with that. And their prices are well below that of the 993. Nothing there not to love, IMHO!

As with any 911, what is critical is that you get a good inspection by a knowledgeable shop that enjoys a good reputation (avoid dealerships, IMHO), and clear receipts which attest to maintenance and the updates/fixes to the known bagaboos. And as I had mentioned, the 964s are killer cars for the dough. Learn about them, and if you like them go for it.


Edward

GG Allin

If we're talking about 964's compared to 3.2 Carrera's, I haven't seen any consistancy that 964's are cheaper.

kick7ca

How about those bulbous one peice bumpers combined with plain-jane wheels. Very 90s. As the 964 ages, they begin to look someone tacked some 90s "aero-plastics" onto the much loved impact bumper look.

gmsracing

The 996 prices are going to follow the 964---the unloved stepchild of the family.

Bearclaw

"much loved impact bumper look"?

Hey, those are MY much-loved bulbous appendages yer talkin about!!!

And my D90's are very '90's - as is the rest of the car !!!

Every model goes through this trough. How many times have you seen an old 'Vette or some muscle car go to auction for some ungodly amount, and thought, "Man, 15 years ago I coulda bought one of those for chicken feed!!!"

I do think the 996 may be an exception. The 964 is a step in an evolution; the 996 (non-turbo version) had enough overall issues to qualify as a "misfire".

flatsixnut

996 prices have already dipped below 964 prices and even nice 3.2 Carreras and SC's.

I beleive the answer to the OP's question is prolly due just plain looks. We all know the impact bumpers are the best looking 911's ever to come out of Stuttgart.

On a serious note...I think all 911's pre-996 are beautiful.

Look at the prices for 1989 Turbo's...these are up there with 2001-2004 Turbo's, some even alot more.

Ed Hughes

As mentioned above, the 4WD is one to probably avoid in the 964. I used to listen to the knocks on their styling and bought into the mindset that the 993 was a much prettier car. It probably is, but not by much. I've come to love the looks of 964's in the "RS" theme. I think they look pretty sweet. And, it's hard to argue the increase in technology that Porsche put forth when they came out. They are probably one of the better values in air-cooled 911's.

imcarthur

I know what kept me away when I was looking. The style. And the complexity for DIY - airbags, power steering, ABS, new suspension. All were great improvements but I was less comfortable as a weekend DIYer tackling those things.

Ian

Marc Gelefsky

Say what you will, the 964 is a great car for the money and the 996 is one of the best sports car values out there. I did not feel the love for the 996 when it first came out but the car has grown on me and the Mk II version got me, I really enjoy owning one.
For that matter the 964 did not thrill me when it came about but I have spent time behind the wheel of them and they are great machines! Get a nice one and backdate it to 73 looks
I hate to hear what some of you may think of the Boxster!! But I owned a 986S and it was a blast! I guess I have owned all the Porsche that 911 snobs pick on, 944, 951.. All have been great driving experiences.
But I will admit one thing, over many years these cars have come and gone but my 86 Carrera has always remained.

flatsixnut

If you read my reply you know I was not being a snob about it. We were talking about reasons for the price difference. There is no denying that you can pick up a 1999 996 for less than a nice 3.2, or SC. The reason is not because they dont perform better.

earlyapex

The market place is fickle.