ked

bile, much like oil, might best burn in the OT forum.

r911

"Please just tell me one."
- Jeez what a question - are you serious?? Canada, Sweden, France, Australia... many others. 1/20 also needs to go back and re-read what I said about state vs. federal control of the coastal areas. Did I not put it well?

Nobody is drilling in the waters of the US w/o our permission. The drilling you are thinking of is in Cuban waters.

What is being missed or ignored - since I mentioned it before - are the problems from CO2 release into the atmosphere and into the oceans. That applies to oil shale also -- oil shale conversion is [1] extremely expensive, and [2] very damaging to the environments where the supplies are found.

I agree that Slinton (oops, it was a typoe -- really) greatest accomplishment was keeping himself in office. I don't particularly care about his person sexual life - has little to do with being Pres.

One of Twenty

Randy,

We'll agree to disagree here and while I certainly respect your opinion, the facts quite simply are unsupportive of that opinion:

Last time I checked..........

Canada:

Canada has arguably one of the worst CO2 release records..........I'm sure you know of the oil sands. As far as CO2 release............can't really get much better (worse) than the oil sands of Alberta. BTW - and if you read my prior post, Canada has opened up its arctic coast lines to hydrocarbon deposit exploration and production:

http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/440116

France:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/France/Oil.html

France has limited natural resources in quantity, but fully develops all that it can (it has exhausted - UNLIKE THE US - ALL of its hydrocarbon depositis). France has some coal, iron ores, bauxite, and uranium. Deposits of petroleum are almost nonexistent, and natural gas reserves discovered (1951) at Lacq in the Pyrenées are now nearly exhausted.

Sweden:

Sweden is currently developing ALL of its available natural resources: Forests (CO2 release for sure), hydroelectric power, iron ore, copper, lead, zinc, gold, silver, tungsten, uranium, arsenic, feldspar, timber.

Australia:

Australia has has a boatload of precious metals and coal and has never extracted so much iron ore, copper, gold or uranium from Australia and exported it worldwide, especially to China, than it currently does.

With respect to hydrocarbon (offshore) development - Please review the attached:

http://www.ga.gov.au/image_cache/GA11161.pdf

Australia has well in excess of 15% (15% represents the total amount of US coastal areas open to exploration in the US) of their coastal areas open for exploration, production and development.

Please check your energy facts prior to posting. The simple matter is that there are energy technologies which may very well provide us with solutions in the future. However, in the near term, the world economy is driven (perhaps unfortunately) by oil. For the US to be sitting on its own natural resources and not be developing them is beyond short-sighted - solely in my opinion of course.


Kind Regards,



Greg

One of Twenty

Randy,

BTW - The Chinese will be drilling in the straits of Florida in the very near term. In addition, the Bahamas are in the process of developing their hydrocarbon deposits via exploration licenses being granted, 3-D seismic being shot and exploration wells being drilled.

Peter Zimmermann

...and throw in Norway, who drills off their own coastline and has become basically energy self-sufficient...

abe

..they are the leaders in petroleum exploration and economics. That is one of the sources the US government uses.....unfortunately politicians will take whatever info they want for their cause. Just listen to them now...."they have 68 million acres to drill on" ...yes recently acquired leases with little prospect of finding oil...and if they find it it will take along time to get permits with the risk of the environmentalist stopping them because of some rare lizard or bird. Drill now where you know the oil is....the 68mill acres are for the future.
OIl searching/ exploration is costly to the industry...with the risk of government telling them "sorry you cant now that you found it". It took 75 well drilling in the NorthSea before the 76th hit the jack pot!.

Oh, "at what cost"...one spill has crippled this country for 30 years, one nuke mishap the same...which is why we are in the mess we are right now....that is the cost of not doing it.
At the cost of unemployment, decreasing standards of living, higher food products...which the world and the poor depend on....yes thats the cost. Like it or not our entire economy EVERYTHING depends on energy....unfortunately carbon fuels are cheap...like whale oil was in the 19th century.

oh, and before you go off on "well, petroleum institute blablabla...big oil"....they know their oil better than the Democratic and Republican parties who are more into short term election gains without regards to the long term future of this countries energy needs.

One last thing...there is a world out there besides Oregon. Feel sorry for the poor lumberjacks and fisherman in the state who have lost their livelyhoods as a result the same people who are telling you that drilling is too risky and what for...there is no oil anyways.

Wouldn't it be funny if CUBA became the largest oil seller to the US.....

abe...who will move on to bigger and better things...like replacing my A/C on the 83 because the environmentalist has made it impossible to put Freon....and too costly to recharge with its replacement....

r911

go back and read your original question -- maybe you did not say what you wanted.

my answer is correct.

and please, try not to blather in your posts - it makes it hard to tell what is a question and what is just verbiage.

and remember oil shale is a rock it is NOT oil. neither are tar sands (which are already being exploited).

I assume none of you have grandchildren nor care what sort of world you leave after you die??

flatsixnut

There wont be much of a world left for anyone if we rely on "hope" and "change".

As most people out there, I myself know that we can not survive the short term without petrolium products. So strictly thinking what we need to do long term will not help us. There will be no long term (alternative fuels) if we cant survive our short term (more petrolium products).

Who is running this Country? It sure the hell is not the American people.
I for one dont want my tax paying dollars being spent on finding out what the effects of drinking coke are to African natives.

ehuggins

I assume none of you have grandchildren nor care what sort of world you leave after you die??

I want to leave them a World in which Freedom, Liberty and the Dignity of the Individual is placed ahead of Socialist Collectivism. This "Energy Crisis" is governmentally created in much of the same manner as the last one. It will be solved by allowing the Free Market to operate. Compact flourscent light bulbs are not going to work this time.

r911

Free markets need resources to operate on. In fact, you are seeing it at work - scarcity and high demand causes high prices (duh).

You think conservation of resources is somehow related to socialism? to "collectivism"?

and then we have some sort of gibberish about coke and Africa...

It is clear that no substantive replies will be able to address the politicized befuddlement here, much less the need for some logic and facts.

Count me out, kiddies.

flatsixnut

Well that was a little sarcastic statement by me, but you can not deny that our Government does not waste money granted to worthless studies.

gibber..gibber...gibber...gibber...

ehuggins

"Free markets need resources to operate on. In fact, you are seeing it at work - scarcity and high demand causes high prices (duh)."

Our present situation is no different than the empty shelves in the Old Soviet Union. Government interference in the supply of goods and services led to a shortage. Its the same now, tree hugger restrictions on the supply of oil has led to a scarcity. That same interference is preventing new supplies from coming on line -- off shore drilling, oil shale, coal gasification. Electricity is next -- Nuclear, Wind, Geothermal, Coal all face restrictions from the Environmental Mafia.

I know I should just shut up, wear my Jimmy Carter sweater while sitting on my Governmentally approved, Enviromentally correct low flush toilet lighted by a compact flourescent light bulb and contemplate the Virtues of Liberal Wisdom. But the only thing that I have determined is that it stinks!

jakeflyer

AS oil goes up, getting plugged wells in production and increasing the output of existing; producing; underground reserves is at red line. There is more untapped oil--- later on that. Unclaimed credit is due the USA for willingly destroying portions of its oil fields during WW2 to supply not only the U.S, but the U.K, and other U.S. allies with oil to fight the war. Japan was in a Southward push to grab the major oil in the Indies, which would have been end of game. Production standards were known and in place to get as much from the underground oil pools as possible. Production numbers, salt water numbers, and other methods were in law in the 1930s, at least in Texas under the Texas Railroad Commission.

Conservation and preservation were downgraded to fight the war and our oil fields paid the price. If there had been more care and conservation, how much longer would it have been before the fields played out? Don’t know but it was costly.

The reserves of the U.S.A. are enough to keep oil and gas in our P cars for some time to come. When we explore, drill, and produce those reserves is another question. Frozen methane off the coasts is still untapped. Technology may not be there yet.

But, for our 911 Club, things are not as grim as they look. This severe constriction of oil and energy is long overdue for the U.S. consumer and industry. As the painful process takes us all into mental depression and some into real financial depression, we ignore one outstanding and shining asset --- because of the construction of the U.S. economy, we are able to quickly make the changes to survive. Europe does not have that capability. Yes, there was severe lack of planning, laws, enforcement etc with the economy as a whole.

The U.S has huge energy assets in coal, gas, and oil. We have World Class educational institutions. We have vast food production capacity and a huge coast line with untapped recourses in food and energy. And we are a can do people.

And, THAT is why you keep your 911. We are on top; we just don’t know it yet.

BrokenE

I think the US not fully utilizing natural resources is a military strategy, not anything else. gotta have oil to make jet fuel, ship fuel, armored tank fuel and what would we do if no one would sell to us or if everyone else ran out? It's an insurance policy.

Anyway, oil will someday runout regardless of where and how deep we all drill. It might be true that we can point the finger at the government and others, but we need to look at ourselves too and help where we can.

jakeflyer

-----BrokenE-----------------------------BINGO !!!!!!! And congratulations for "getting it". I was party to a discussion 30 years ago when my Dad still worked for a major oil co. The guys were higher up types and my Dad wanted me to meet these men. In the ramble of oil patch stuff, the middle east oil came up. I asked,pointly, why were putting up with the problems of importing oil when we had oil here. The answer was----- "WE WANT TO USE UP THEIRS FIRST".

and that dear children, is how the cow ate the cabbage.