Alucil Vs. Nikasil...How to Differentiate...PIC's POSTED
11-04-2002, 10:56 AM
#46
Sanity check ( too late !!)..
OK, so what do we have with all the recent and updated posts?...what common ground do we have?
It seems the only common ground for an accurate answer is that Mahle ( Nickasil) is 11 fins...and Kolbenschmidt ( KS..or Alusil) have 10 fins. Period. ( right?). It seems either supplier may or may not have a perpendicular rib.
Or ....? <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
---Wil Ferch
OK, so what do we have with all the recent and updated posts?...what common ground do we have?
It seems the only common ground for an accurate answer is that Mahle ( Nickasil) is 11 fins...and Kolbenschmidt ( KS..or Alusil) have 10 fins. Period. ( right?). It seems either supplier may or may not have a perpendicular rib.
Or ....? <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
---Wil Ferch
11-04-2002, 02:46 PM
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I was thinking about this last night as well. The only common thing I see from all our gathered facts is that the Alusils have 10 fins and that the Nikasil's have 11. The ribs look to be common among both manufactures.
The only other 2 ways to really know are:
1) To see the manufactuer markings (stamps) on the cylinders themselves. Possibly by using a mirror to see either manufactuer matkings at either 3 or 9-oclock positions. The sheetmetal air guides my get in the way.
2) Trying to sneak a peek of the cylinder walls themselves, either through the sump during an oil change or a small cam. inside the plug hole. Try to recognize shiny (nikasil) or dull (alusil) finishes.
-Charlie
(trying to bring closure to a well beaten and otherwise interesting topic)
The only other 2 ways to really know are:
1) To see the manufactuer markings (stamps) on the cylinders themselves. Possibly by using a mirror to see either manufactuer matkings at either 3 or 9-oclock positions. The sheetmetal air guides my get in the way.
2) Trying to sneak a peek of the cylinder walls themselves, either through the sump during an oil change or a small cam. inside the plug hole. Try to recognize shiny (nikasil) or dull (alusil) finishes.
-Charlie
(trying to bring closure to a well beaten and otherwise interesting topic)
11-25-2002, 04:42 PM
#49
Guys:
Well...seeing that we were close to an answer, but that there were some inconsistencies, I thought I'd write a letter to each of the manufacturers ( ! ).
--Wil Ferch
Response follows:
( from Mahle)
Hi Wil,
I realy do not know the number of fins of our cylinders. But I have on
sample of a Porsche-liner in my office (I use it as a holder for my
pencils). This liner has 11 fins and two perpendicular rib on the casting
tool, that connects the fins.
If you have any question, please do not hesitate, to let us know.
Best regards,
Christoph Dutschke
---------------------- Weitergeleitet von Christoph
Dutschke/MAHLE-GmbH/MAHLE am 05.11.2002 12:39
======================================================================== =============
from Kolbenshmidt ( alusil):
In the past we had 2 Alusil-liners of our part No. 88 761 110 and 89 174
110 for Piston diamater of 95 mm.
Our liners have only 10 fins, in the center casted together. If you give me
a fax Number, I can return to you
a picture of the air-cooled liner.Regards, Bernd Waldhauer. ( Kolbenschmidt)
Well...seeing that we were close to an answer, but that there were some inconsistencies, I thought I'd write a letter to each of the manufacturers ( ! ).
--Wil Ferch
Response follows:
( from Mahle)
Hi Wil,
I realy do not know the number of fins of our cylinders. But I have on
sample of a Porsche-liner in my office (I use it as a holder for my
pencils). This liner has 11 fins and two perpendicular rib on the casting
tool, that connects the fins.
If you have any question, please do not hesitate, to let us know.
Best regards,
Christoph Dutschke
---------------------- Weitergeleitet von Christoph
Dutschke/MAHLE-GmbH/MAHLE am 05.11.2002 12:39
======================================================================== =============
from Kolbenshmidt ( alusil):
In the past we had 2 Alusil-liners of our part No. 88 761 110 and 89 174
110 for Piston diamater of 95 mm.
Our liners have only 10 fins, in the center casted together. If you give me
a fax Number, I can return to you
a picture of the air-cooled liner.Regards, Bernd Waldhauer. ( Kolbenschmidt)
11-25-2002, 05:37 PM
#50
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I may finally be able to get some sleep -- 11 fins with rib -- I guess the Germans did not tear my engine down and put the Allusils in it before it was shipped over here. That's a relief. Thanks for posting the letters.
<img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
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11-25-2002, 06:34 PM
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Will,
Straight from the horses mouth, can't beat that
Good thinking asking the manufactures directly. Beats our process of poking guesses and piecing together random clues to come to a meaningful conclusion.
....They call them liners huh, fitting.
-Charlie <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Straight from the horses mouth, can't beat that
Good thinking asking the manufactures directly. Beats our process of poking guesses and piecing together random clues to come to a meaningful conclusion. ....They call them liners huh, fitting.
-Charlie <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
11-26-2002, 09:55 AM
#52
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A mystery solved. Dang, Wil, I'm impressed! And, for what it's worth, my '83 Euro sports 11-fin liners, so I guess that makes them Mahles. So, the original story, that all Euros were fitted with Mahle, is still hanging together for my sample size of two.
12-03-2002, 01:51 PM
#53
Tom F and others:
Thanks for the Kudos on my contacting the OEM manufacturers, but please *do* note that Mahle wasn't giving us an "absolute" answer ( implied 11 fins, however)...yet the KS/Alusil people implied very strongly only 10 fins for them. OTOH, note the earlier Mike K post quoting Protomotive that Nikasil is 11 and Alusil is 10.
So..this still seems to hold, although I would have preferred yet stronger endorsement from the manufacturers.
Thanks for the Kudos on my contacting the OEM manufacturers, but please *do* note that Mahle wasn't giving us an "absolute" answer ( implied 11 fins, however)...yet the KS/Alusil people implied very strongly only 10 fins for them. OTOH, note the earlier Mike K post quoting Protomotive that Nikasil is 11 and Alusil is 10.
So..this still seems to hold, although I would have preferred yet stronger endorsement from the manufacturers.
12-03-2002, 03:59 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by chuck951:But you can tell the difference by the casting differences. The Ausil cylinders have a 'rib' that runs straight up the middle perpendicular to cooling fins, starting from the first fin to last fin, quite obvious to see. Where the Nikisil cylinders don't have this perpendicular fin running the length of fins.
[QB][/QB]<hr></blockquote>
I think what was most confusing was the notion that the perpendicular fin was only indicative of Nikasil, to that end, many of us with 11 fins and the perpendicular ridge were relieved to learn that we were not "cursed" with the dreaded Allusil. But, this knowledge for some of us may be irrelevant since whatever the cylinder composition is, they have proven to be incredibly durable, in my case, withstanding well over 100,000 miles of general use including thousands of miles of flat out track use. With less then 3% leakdown, whatever the cylinder lining composition they have far exceeded my expectations. The manufacturer's less then definitive answer on the number of fins might lead one to suspect that others who develop such definitive rules might not have all the information. Regardless, thank you for helping us to better understand what we have.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
[QB][/QB]<hr></blockquote>
I think what was most confusing was the notion that the perpendicular fin was only indicative of Nikasil, to that end, many of us with 11 fins and the perpendicular ridge were relieved to learn that we were not "cursed" with the dreaded Allusil. But, this knowledge for some of us may be irrelevant since whatever the cylinder composition is, they have proven to be incredibly durable, in my case, withstanding well over 100,000 miles of general use including thousands of miles of flat out track use. With less then 3% leakdown, whatever the cylinder lining composition they have far exceeded my expectations. The manufacturer's less then definitive answer on the number of fins might lead one to suspect that others who develop such definitive rules might not have all the information. Regardless, thank you for helping us to better understand what we have.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
