Forza

I am looking at a 1983 911 SC with a bit under 158,000 miles. It has a detailed set of records, drives very well, and is in good overall condition, yet it hasn't been driven much in the past several years. During that time, a lot of work was done to replace oil return lines, replace broken head studs, spark plugs, exterior rubber, etc.

The most recent leak down test was carried out in September of 2007 and reported values of < 7% for all cylinders except number 4, which scored a 22%. Finally, the mechanic noted the following: "smokes on decel", "fuel in oil", and "oil leaking from cylinder bases".

Will this engine likely require a total rebuild to address these issues? Are the deficiencies noted major signs of impending trouble? How much may it cost to remedy the problems?

Thanks for any feedback.

jakeflyer

The 22% may be a big deal along with the smoke esp at 158,000. The rebuild is not cheap and pistons and cyls are about $3000 or so. With the prices of the SC on the decline, you might end up with far more in the car with repair than it is worth. If you can do the rebuild, then it need to be nice and cheap other than the eng

Peter Zimmermann

I have to partially disagree with the statement that SC prices are on the decline. I'm only seeing that the needy cars of the group have gone down in value slightly, but I think only in response to the cost of repairs to these cars climbing. Good SCs are priced right where they've been for the last couple of years - $15K - $22K, depending on many, many things. Now, the '83 car sounds like a car in decline. A car that's had head studs replaced sure as heck shouldn't be leaking oil from cylinders (was the owner told they needed to be done but never were??), nor should it have 22% leakage (an unacceptable amount by Porsche service info). Oil lines and spark plugs shouldn't be classified as "a lot of work," those are simple items done routinely as needed. The important items, beside obvious engine issues, are; (1) when were the trans synchros done, (2) when was the clutch done, (3) have the brake calipers been rebuilt, (4) how old is the alternator, (5) was the engine updated to Carrera oil-fed timing chain tensioners, (6) when were the shocks/tires replaced??? Etc... Needy? Quite possibly.

For comparison, check the ad for my '82 coupe in the Rennlist classifeds - today it's item #118 on page 4 of the 911/993/996 category.

Forza

Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure that Peter's right: mechanics noted on more than one occasion that the #4 lower rear head studs were broken, but inspection of all service records indicate these were not repaired.

rosco28

Forza - If you're looking for an ealry 911, you'd be a lucky guyl if you buy Pete's!! Don't even think twice, just wallk away from this '83 with the 22% leakage, and buy Pete's, sight unseen. Maybe pay a little extra and ask him to do the A/C. His pedigree is priceless!

Pete - Any news on the 912??

Daniel Dudley

Many good SCs out there. You can easily spend 5K on a motor or double that, so it is the single most important bit in a 911.

Shop carefully and buy a gem. It is far cheaper in the long run, and you will be spending your first year driving it, instead of visiting it or working on it.

Also, Peter is quite modest, but consider buying a copy of his book. It is shown on his avatar, and it is well worth reading before you lay down cash on a 911.

flatsixnut

SC's that are in this condition are declining in price. But the ones in good shape are maintaining a good price and in some cases are getting big money. I would not trade mine in on a perfect 89.

Jay H

All of these cars are $20,000 to $25,000 cars. Either pay now, or pay later.

Here's some numbers as to what you might run into with this thing. Let's assume the motor is shot and you need a pro shop to do the rebuid. Let's also assume after 158k miles, the transmission needs freshening.

$ 5,000 for the car in question- the current owner lets it go at rock bottom prices.
$10,000 for the motor rebuild
$ 5,000 for the transmission rebuild and fresh clutch
$ 2,000 for cosmetic issues to really get the car nice
$ 2,000 for shocks, brakes, alignment, misc oil leaks, etc. etc. etc.
$ 2,000 for "while you're in there" costs

Now you've got $24k into this car. And, it's still an SC with 158k on the clock... Those numbers above could be conservative depending on what you run into once you get into the car and really assess it's condition. You can dump $4000 on suspension restoration and $5000 in interior restoration in a blink of an eye. Obviously if you can DIY on a lot of this work, those costs will get reduced. Or, even after all this money is spent, she still might have a few minor issues looming... Again, pay now or pay later, but they all get there.

At this point in time, it's hard to justify restoring an SC or 3.2 if they are really abused or worn out cars. There are just too many more out there to pick from that won't need as much and these cars are not commanding huge prices to be able to dump $20k into them (over and above the purchase price) without being under water. Things could change if the car has sentimental value, you like projects to dump money into, and/or you just plain love the car and wouldn't get rid of it for years.

Good luck!

Jay
90 964, 84 3.2

jakeflyer

I mispoke regarding prices. My opinion is based upon my having been interested in and still on the hunt for a 1982 or 1983 SC or any Carrera. We have one 83 SC now and a second would be better. This hunt is now ongoing for a year and I have talked to many owners and looked at several cars. Much is a learning process but I do have cash to do the deal when I find it. HOWEVER, I am hunting for a cheap car and most have problem that are a money sink. These cars appear to be declining in price, but not in proportion to the general economic outlook. GOOD cars appear to be holding fairly well. If you want one of these cars, 911, you can not afford a basket case for cheap. It just costs too much to buy serious tranny or engine work. I WANT a project and have a budget that is slim on bulk. My views are stained by looking at a bunch of needy/seedy cars and having the time, space, and tools to do some work that I have not done before and I want to do. The Porsche can be a creature of deception. It is not a Chevy or ford when it comes to the parts, or simple wrench work. YOu really need to get as much information and help as you can before you spend your maney. I think bottom line is that you can take a hit by getting a bad car and that a good car is going to be as good of an investment as you can make now.

Zimmerman-------- Real Porshe baby seat. No after market here.

Jay- I just read the post and think thats what I wanted to or should have said. Excellent

Jay H

I agree. Once you really get into these cars, it can really add up... Been there, done that...

baldman

Hey Forza,
I have a 1983 Targa for sale - PPI done < 3 years ago showed leak down of under 3% across the board. This car is in excellent condition and you won't be disappointed! Take a look at:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=402898

Thanks,
Andy

Forza

Thanks for all the advice and feedback. I'm glad I'm not in too much of a hurry to decide, and I certainly agree that it's better to pay more upfront to get a well-maintained 911 rather than sink an untold amount into a tired variant.

The pursuit continues....