Amber Gramps

I am going to cut and paste a conversation from a rather hijacked thread.

Hester: Did you really get a ticket, Bray? If so, what is/are the charge(s)? VC 23109(c)?

douglas bray: VC23109(C) Misdemeanor . I was making a left hand turn at a light. I was stuck in the intersection as the light turned yellow and didn't want to be sitting there when it turned red. I don't think I took off to quickly, but he did. The officer said I went flying thru the light at the last second and was never stopped. He said I was going at least 35 when I went into and came out of the intersection. I was at a complete stop for at least 30 seconds sitting in the intersection....first ticket in ten years, never caused a TC and have no criminal record. I'm sure he has it on video. From where he was at he should have me clearly sitting.

EDIT: The only thing I can think of is that it was the first drive after my valve adjustment and the car may have really launched with out me even realizing it.

Hester: Relevant Paragraphs of California Vehicle Code Section 23109:

(C) A person shall not engage in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on a highway, and a person shall not aid or abet in a motor vehicle exhibition of speed on any highway.

(i) A person who violates subdivision (b), (c), or (d) shall upon conviction of that violation be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than 90 days, by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars ($500), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

California Criminal Jury Instructions re: violation of VC23109(c).

Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury...the defendant, Douglas Bocephous Bray, is charged with engaging in an exhibition of speed in violation of Vehicle Code section 23109(c). To prove that the defendant is guilty of this crime, the People must prove that:

(1) Douglas Bocephous Bray drove a motor vehicle on a highway; AND

(2) While so driving, Douglas Bocephous Bray willfully engaged in an exhibition of speed.

Someone commits an act willfully when he or she does it willingly or on purpose. It is not required that he or she intend to break the law, hurt someone else, or gain any advantage.

A person engages in an exhibition of speed when he or she accelerates or drives at a rate of speed that is dangerous and unsafe in order to show off or make an impression on someone else.

[The People must prove that the defendant intended to show off or impress someone but are not required to prove that the defendant intended to show off to or impress any particular person.]

Who were you trying to impress, Bray? Show off....Seriously now, I've seen you drive and you aren't impressing anyone....okay now, seriously, and I mean it this time...

I don't practice criminal law but it seems to me that the Prosecution's burden is to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Bray was trying to impress someone. The People don't have to show that he was trying to impress anyone in particular but that he was trying to impress someone.

If I were presenting a defense to a jury (which you should insist on whether you hire a lawyer to represent you or not and which you are entitled to, I would make sure that they learned that Mr. Bray is a devoted husband and father with 19 children and that he hasn't been able to or tried to impress anyone since at least 1987.

Because the intent to impress is an element of the crime, I would attempt to establish exactly what Bray was thinking about as he went through that intersection, and, so long as it was about something other than tring to impress someone (e.g., octane and its effect on Porsche 911s), it would be evidence tending to disprove an essential element of the crime alleged.

The uphill part for me would be the fact that he was driving a Porsche 911 (i.e., a fancy sports car). In closing, I would argue that the Porsche 911 is impressive in and of itself and that speeding through an intersection in one would not make it any more or less impressive to anyone who might see it.

In my professional (although maybe red-necked and loud-mouthed) opinion, you got a bull$hit ticket that isn't going to stick. The best thing that you can do is hire a lawyer. That being said, you might want to take your chances and handle it yourself.

At the very least, make sure that you don't miss your arraignment. You may be able to just go to the court anytime before the appearance date on the ticket (with the ticket) and asked to be arraigned. The arraignment is just where the court informs you of the crime that the People allege you've committed and asks you to enter a plea to the charges (guilty or not guilty). The ticket might also have instructions for entering a plea by mail. Plead not guilty. Don't waive your right to a jury, don't waive your speedy trial rights, and don't waive your right to trial in front of a judge (not a commissioner). Let the bastards jump through all of the hoops. The court will set a trial date which, in a misdemeanor case in which the Bray, er, I mean, defendant, has not waived his speedy trial rights, must be within 45 days of the arraignment.

At this point, you can go hire a lawyer to handle the pretrial and trial.

The pretrial will consist of an exchange of information between the prosecution and the defense as required by Penal Code Sections 1054 and following, pretrial motions (e.g., for dismissal or exclusion of evidence, etc.), and negotiations for a plea bargain (maybe they will let you plead guilty to jay-walking or something). If you are really persistent, the prosecuter may decide that his case is weak, that he doesn't want to waste his time trying to prosecute an old man with 19 kids, and that he should either offer you a sweet deal or just drop the case for lack of evidence or in the interests of justice.

If they decide to go to trial, well, then, its a crap shoot and its up to the jury.

Peter Zimmermann

Amber Gramps

To top it all off it was my birthday. I do have a lawyer that has offered to help. Her son is in our daycare. Kinda nice. I'm gonna need her. Now I have to go change my password from Bocephous.


Just a side note: Hester, I think you have contributed more to this board and Pelican in the last couple months, than I have in a year.

The board may now put me on trial..............

Peter Zimmermann

The Grand Jury is convening as we speak...

Hester

I think you can beat the rap, Bray. From the description that you gave, it sounds like the cop gave you a bull$hit ticket.

If it were me, I would fight it tooth and nail. Because its a misdemeanor and a moving violation, you have a lot at stake so don't be shy about insisting on all of your rights.

If you had some evidence to present in your defense, it would make things a lot better. Tape from the police cruiser's camera would be good. Are you sure that he had one and had it on? You didn't happen to have a passenger, did you?

The prosecution's burden of proving intent to "impress" is where I think the case against you is weakest and might be what makes the local prosecuter decide not to prosecute.

Take that lawyer up on her offer. The prosecutor will be more inclined to offer a good deal if he or she knows that you are going to mount a vigorous defense.

I have gotten pulled over more times than I can count. I've gotten pretty good lately at talking my way out of getting a ticket with the officer at the curb. In fact, I have a collection of those blue, "traffic warning" tickets. When I do get tickets, I always contest them. That strategy has enabled me to keep a driver's license even after a lifetime record of three tickets for speed in excess of 100 mph!

v8_ranch

Dude, you have 19 kids? Man, I thought I with soon to be seven had the Rennlist record.

Amber Gramps

I think he is telling a fib. I only have 6 kids and a max of 14 in the daycare. My younger 3 count in the 14 max when they are here, but I think we have 17 on the rolls. Does this make me guilty of exhibition, ya!

Out of the 40 people at my office I am the only one still married to his original spouse making me as Steve Weiner put it "Nowhere near normal".

Peter Zimmermann

Here's the real question - and thread-buster... How many people in the office are married to people who used to be married to someone else in the office who still work in the office alongside their now ex ?

Sailmed

Hey wait a minute - how did we get to talkin of Alabama?

Amber Gramps

Good question. None, butt, we have the original truck driver, now top salesman, and his wife, his brother, his brother-in-law, his son, his brother-in-law's son, and his best friend, and his best friend's wife, and 3 inside sales reps they have stolen from other companies. then you have the owners and they each have a kid that works there. One owner has his sister, a sister-in-law, and the sister-in-law's niece. I, on the other hand, used my customer base, collected over many years to get my job. How many of them are at a minimum swingers.....don't know.

theiceman

okay I think i'm gettin a headache ... .. does this end up at someone being their own grandpa ?

Peter Zimmermann

...

Hester

Hey Bray, my wife (who is a a lawyer) thinks you'd be better off without a jury and waiving your speedy trial rights. She says that juries are random and are less likely to believe that the guy driving the Porsche wasn't exhibiting speed with the intention of impressing everyone. You might be better off letting a judge decide. She also said that the longer you have between arraignment and trial the better your chance are that something will happen that will make the cop unavailable.

Amber Gramps

My wife told me over dinner that the lawyer wants $1,000 to look at the ticket. She then corrected herself to say that if it goes to trial and she helps with that, than her boss wants $1,000. could be worth it.

3.2SLANTNOSE

From my past experience in traffic law, and having to go to court for the hearings, it really does depend a lot on the venue or bailiwick. I have found that if it is in a smaller city, as opposed to being in a large city, the judge may work with you. In a larger city, like L.A. or Houston and others, it seems that if you can get it re-set for trial 2 or 3 times, you have a better chance of the officer that wrote the ticket not being there. But, some of the larger cities make it profitable for an officer to appear in court, because it is counted toward overtime hours. Exhibition of speed, is somewhat of an all purpose, "you pissed off the police" violation. This is because it is so broad in what it can cover. That violation usually goes hand in hand with "excessive noise from squealing tires on pavement" violation also being written. Those are 2 of the most used "throw down"(easily given, hard to disprove) tickets. Both are generally "POP"(**** off police) tickets, and are very hard to actually beat, because they are so broad in their definition. What jurisdiction was this written in? Hope it turns out OK. Tony.