Price reduction, or...
01-31-2008, 07:36 PM
#17
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Jazz it up Pete . . .
Ian
Do you want a 911 that is truly sorted? A commuter car for much of its life, I have owned this great SC since 2002. I’m Pete Zimmermann, Rennlister & author of The Used 911 Story. Not concours, this driver has clean & shiny paint (no door dings, almost no road rash) with a nice interior – comfortable non-stock seats & perfect dash, headliner, sun visors etc. 192K miles on this ‘bullet-proof’ 3.0 litre engine (never rebuilt – never needed it) with no smoke, normal oil consumption & good leakdown numbers. Rust free, no accident damage & flawless glass & trim on this California car. New clutch & cable, new Bilstein HD shocks (4), new camshafts, new Carrera Tensioners, new Bridgestone RE750s (4), new airbox, brake hoses, calipers resealed, new front pads, rotors & wheel bearings, alternator and much more – all serviced by me (I used to own a Porsche service shop too). This 915 trans shifts perfectly & the car handles perfectly - Euro height, aligned and corner balanced, of course. The engine compartment mounted A/C components have been removed, but all those parts (no compressor) will be included with the car. Clean CarFax. Car has just been serviced, including oil & filter change, valve adjustment and new fuel filter. It is ready to drive! This car will legally pass required smog testing in California. Delivery inside CA will be considered, seller will pay 50% of interstate shipping cost.
I know writers HATE to be edited, but . . .Ian
01-31-2008, 08:07 PM
#19
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Ian: DANG! I should have had you write the ad!!! Where were you when I needed you???
neri: No, no, no - my other SC was white, it wouldn't pass as a copy...
neri: No, no, no - my other SC was white, it wouldn't pass as a copy...
01-31-2008, 09:26 PM
#21
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Pete
Here is some of the best ad copy I have ever seen for a 911 . . .
Ian
Ian
Here is some of the best ad copy I have ever seen for a 911 . . .
One of the most beautiful shapes in automotive history. Performance is equal to that of supercars costing twice as much. Anyone accustomed to driving in ho-hum fashion, steering with a lazy finger, should steer clear of Porsches completely. To operate a 911 at all, much less seize the maximum from its potential, demands effort. You have to pay attention. Manipulate the clutch and gears with skill and caution, and you're rewarded with an unrivaled motoring experience. Acceleration is simply phenomenal, provided that you stay in each gear for a suitable span of time, and avoid letting the rear-mounted engine over-rev. No one could ask for a sweeter gearshift lever; one that traverses through five speeds by way of long, visceral flicks of the wrist. The stiff clutch demands a strong foot, but engages gracefully. Everybody knows that handling is Porsche's prime talent, but you must experience it to believe. Steering doesn't require a lot of effort, but you feel every last imperfection from the pavement in the steering wheel, never losing intimate kinship with the road. On the highway, a 911 is surprisingly comfortable. The car tries to ride right over the top of bumps, to maintain the best possible grip. Back support couldn't be better, in a superlative driving position. Seats feel molded to your body; the point of perfection between stiffness and softness.
I think it was a California Classics ad . . . one of the ones with the Goth babe . . .Ian
Ian
01-31-2008, 10:34 PM
#22
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I have been on the Porsche hunt since May 2006. In the sportcar/motorbike/antique airplane hunt for 60 years. I am not a Porsche expert, I do sometime get it right in market places. I have talked to at least one or two sellers a week over this time period much of it as market research. I just looked at your ad and for comparison-- killer car at a reasonable price, the ad is nicely laid out with good pictures. A buyer does not have to worry about getting it set up, hidden bombs, tensioners, brakes,bearings, throw out bearing, clutch, and all the other things that can go wrong, the LARGEST being not maintained properly. In selling your car, you can consider: PCA is a free ad. Craigslist.com is free. With Craigslist you can advertise in the Los Angeles market. You can control response to your ad by using the email and not posting your phone #. You can select who you want respond to. Cars.com is a good paid site. Unsure about the LA Times, but think that you can run print and they use cars.com for internet at a small up charge. My only wonder is timing. I feel that the softness of the 911 market is directly related to the real estate market. My feeling is that the real estate/mortgage guys have sold off most of their toys. This has been the source of 90% of the cheap buys. As the Federal housing steps in to stabilize the housing market, we may be at the bottom of our 911 price drop. If some one has a few bucks to put away, your car looks good compared to the stock market, real estate, saving account, the US dollar, and the bonds insurance institutions which are now in danger. What can you do with the cash that is going to do better and be more secure than where it is??
02-01-2008, 11:37 AM
#23
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It's all a matter of price. Though it is a very nice car, due to the mileage and no rebuild, I would say it is a 12k car. A rebuild is coming sooner rather than later. For example, I rebuilt the top end on my 81 SC 2 years ago at 65k due to broken head studs, and rebuilt the trans and new clutch at the same time, just because it was out. A/C has been updated and blows cold. Cosmetic condition is as good as yours. It now has around 75k miles, but even so I think I would be lucky to get 17k right now, and it would probably be more like 15k. Even cars with high mileage and rebuilt engines are not easy to sell. Everything sells eventually if you wait long enough or get the price right.
02-01-2008, 12:30 PM
#25
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Ah yes, price...but, as Douglas pointed out, geography seems to be equally important. For instance, a CA car doesn't have the same issues that a mid-west car might have (the original exhaust hardware is still on my car, and by using sockets and wrenches it can be easily disassembled). Which brings us back to timing, and the fact that the most upside down real estate markets (CA, NV & FL - 
) are also hot beds for Porsches and other toys, and that has produced the loud crash signaling the major slow down we're now experiencing 
.
Unfortunately, JBO, you have an '81, which was fitted with the Dilavar studs that break. I adjusted the valves on my car last week - no broken studs, and there probably won't be any. The coated studs, used from '82, are far more reliable, and give the engine a much better chance at realizing its full life.
Ian: Your post #21 is outstanding!
I think that, for now, I'll leave the car at its current price and see what happens. I have considered Craigslist and Cars.com, but then arrangements have to be made to meet at a neutral place for a buyer to see the car - you just never know who's going to show up. I have a little boy in the house, so his safety is always a concern; that would not be an issue with a Rennlist
referral...
) are also hot beds for Porsches and other toys, and that has produced the loud crash signaling the major slow down we're now experiencing . Unfortunately, JBO, you have an '81, which was fitted with the Dilavar studs that break. I adjusted the valves on my car last week - no broken studs, and there probably won't be any. The coated studs, used from '82, are far more reliable, and give the engine a much better chance at realizing its full life.
Ian: Your post #21 is outstanding!
I think that, for now, I'll leave the car at its current price and see what happens. I have considered Craigslist and Cars.com, but then arrangements have to be made to meet at a neutral place for a buyer to see the car - you just never know who's going to show up. I have a little boy in the house, so his safety is always a concern; that would not be an issue with a Rennlist
referral...
02-01-2008, 02:57 PM
#26
Drifting
[QUOTE=Peter Zimmermann;5054576]
Unfortunately, JBO, you have an '81, which was fitted with the Dilavar studs that break. I adjusted the valves on my car last week - no broken studs, and there probably won't be any. The coated studs, used from '82, are far more reliable, and give the engine a much better chance at realizing its full life.
QUOTE]
Pete ,
Not all of the 82 models had the coated studs.
My motor originally had bare metal divialr studs which were replaced by the PO with steel during head work and "While you are in there" work.
John
Unfortunately, JBO, you have an '81, which was fitted with the Dilavar studs that break. I adjusted the valves on my car last week - no broken studs, and there probably won't be any. The coated studs, used from '82, are far more reliable, and give the engine a much better chance at realizing its full life.
QUOTE]
Pete ,
Not all of the 82 models had the coated studs.
My motor originally had bare metal divialr studs which were replaced by the PO with steel during head work and "While you are in there" work.
John
Last edited by GothingNC; 06-07-2009 at 09:38 AM.
02-01-2008, 03:51 PM
#27
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I thought the carreras also had the lower studs that were prone to breaking, and they didn't switch to the better ones until the 964 or 993. In any event, I have heard that higher mileage and a dry climate do reduce the chances of having a problem with them, though I'm not sure why being driven more often helps.
02-01-2008, 03:58 PM
#28
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From everything I've read, it is corrosion. Heat & humidity combined with sitting unused (no hot oil is circulating) are the suspected culprits. One Rennlister bought a <20K 1987 garage queen that had broken head studs.
Ian
Ian
02-01-2008, 04:57 PM
#30
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John: Wow, that's interesting! From personal experience, having done a number of '81 SC engines, we found coated studs in even a couple of late '81 engines. We did a fully documented virgin '81 motor that was just shy of 200K miles, and the coated studs in that one looked good enough to use again (we didn't dare, but none of them snapped during removal)! We've also had '82/83 motors apart and have not encountered uncoated studs. Go figure, it just proves again that "there's a right way, a wrong way, and Porsche's way." One thing's for certain, with Porsche you can never assume anything!
Ian: Exactly. Corrosion is the culprit, and yes, frequency of breakage is far greater on low mileage garage queens than cars used daily. Of course environment is a factor (I've never seen a 3.2 car with broken studs). I've contemplated if some garage queens that have broken studs are started frequently in the garage, left to idle a few minutes, and then shut off until the next time. It seems that that would be an ideal condition for corrosion to develop, but maybe it's only me that's all wet on that score. When a stud breaks the failure usually happens about 2" from the nut.
JBO: Stud history, as best as I can track it using parts references, factory bulletins, and personal exposure to disassembled engines, goes like this:
1977-79 - Version 1. Dilavar studs had an almost brushed finish silver tone, as though each stud was put in a lathe and polished with crocus cloth. Dilavar studs had been used by the factory in racing engines since the early '70s, but didn't introduce them for street use until sometime into early 1977 production. Their development was to deal with the thermal expansion rate of both aluminum and magnesium engine cases. Steel studs were found to be able to expand only half as much as whatever case material was used, while Dilavar had a thermal expansion rate very close to that of either aluminum or magnesium. Of course, the loads placed on the crankcase by steel studs used in the 12 lower positions was found to be unacceptable, so Porsche made the change, probably in a last ditch effort to save the last magnesium 2.7 liter cases from pulled studs.
1980/81 - Version 2. Dilavar studs had a polished gold finish, almost like jewelry.
1982 > - Version 3. Dilavar studs had a heavy black coating applied to them, more like an enamel paint rather than powder coating, but it could have been either.
993s - Version 4. Dilavar studs had a true redesign; their entire length appears to be threaded. They are the current stud of choice for repairs to earlier engines and great care should be used to not scratch their external finish during assembly.
Ian: Exactly. Corrosion is the culprit, and yes, frequency of breakage is far greater on low mileage garage queens than cars used daily. Of course environment is a factor (I've never seen a 3.2 car with broken studs). I've contemplated if some garage queens that have broken studs are started frequently in the garage, left to idle a few minutes, and then shut off until the next time. It seems that that would be an ideal condition for corrosion to develop, but maybe it's only me that's all wet on that score. When a stud breaks the failure usually happens about 2" from the nut.
JBO: Stud history, as best as I can track it using parts references, factory bulletins, and personal exposure to disassembled engines, goes like this:
1977-79 - Version 1. Dilavar studs had an almost brushed finish silver tone, as though each stud was put in a lathe and polished with crocus cloth. Dilavar studs had been used by the factory in racing engines since the early '70s, but didn't introduce them for street use until sometime into early 1977 production. Their development was to deal with the thermal expansion rate of both aluminum and magnesium engine cases. Steel studs were found to be able to expand only half as much as whatever case material was used, while Dilavar had a thermal expansion rate very close to that of either aluminum or magnesium. Of course, the loads placed on the crankcase by steel studs used in the 12 lower positions was found to be unacceptable, so Porsche made the change, probably in a last ditch effort to save the last magnesium 2.7 liter cases from pulled studs.
1980/81 - Version 2. Dilavar studs had a polished gold finish, almost like jewelry.
1982 > - Version 3. Dilavar studs had a heavy black coating applied to them, more like an enamel paint rather than powder coating, but it could have been either.
993s - Version 4. Dilavar studs had a true redesign; their entire length appears to be threaded. They are the current stud of choice for repairs to earlier engines and great care should be used to not scratch their external finish during assembly.
Last edited by Peter Zimmermann; 02-01-2008 at 05:22 PM.