I'll try to keep this short. I bought my '87 Cab back in May with 79K miles on the clock, and she started smoking pretty bad over the course of the last few months (I've put about 4K miles on her). From what I learned in this forum, the smoke suggested bad valve guides. I took her to RPM in Lorton, VA, and Stan ran the diagnostics. It came back with great leak down numbers, but the valve guides do need replacing. He estimates it will be an $8K job.

The good news is that I purchased one of those aftermarket warranties with the car for $1K, and the warranty company is going to cover $4,700 of the cost. They don't cover diagnostics, fluids, tax, they only pay $70/hr for labor (who the heck charges only $70/hr these days... Stan charges $110/hr), and their "books" say the job should take 25.5 hrs, not the 40 hrs Stan is saying the job will take. I suppose I should be thankful they are not trying to weasel their way out of paying, and I am.

My question revolves around the estimate I'm getting from Stan. I've seen others write about top end jobs costing in the neighborhood of $7K, and I know it is hard to tell me if $8K is fair without seeing an estimate of parts/labor (I'll get that next week and post it for your review), but what is your feeling with my general situation? I do trust Stan at RPM, have heard nothing but good things from others, and have had good results with him in the past. I know I've left this a bit open-ended but would enjoy hearing any comments you may have. Thanks!

Bill

 

First, let's define "top end." That is a term filled with inconsistencies, unlike a "valve job" (cylinder head refurbishment) or "head stud replacement," which means just that. At your low mileage I wouldn't anticipate any need for piston work, rings, rod bearings, or the like. On rare occasion a set of 12 lower head studs might need to be updated to the 993 style, but that needs to be a set amount if needed, apart from your "top end" job. That leaves valve guides, which is simply a "valve job." I also have heard about shops charging 40+ hours for that job, but I don't think the 3.2 liter cars have gotten harder to work on since I sold my shop, and I charged 25 hours + stud work. What you must do is get in writing exactly what that "$8K" covers - I had a wizard in Microsoft Word that I filled in the prices on, and handed that to a customer when I gave an engine repair estimate.

FYI: You say that the car started to smoke after you bought it. I need to know a couple of things before you go in to do the work; (1) You are checking the oil correctly, and not overfilling the engine, right? (Engine oil hot, front cooler hot to the touch, car idling on level ground, use the dipstick, keep the level about halfway between the two lines.), and (2) What oil make and viscosity are you using? I don't intend to insult you or your ability, but I have to ask because I've seen way too many cases where a car suffered from owner-induced high oil consumption. I also ask because proclaiming that your engine has bad valve guides, without you stating that the car is using a quart per 100-300 miles, leaves me wanting to know more.

 

Listen to Peter. He knows of which he speaks. You definitely need to verify that your problem is valve guides. You never mentioned your actual oil consumption. If in fact it is as high as the numbers Peter mentioned then you may need it done. I think before I dropped 8k on it I would also get a second opinion from another reputable shop.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

How does the shop know its valve guides and not simply valve stem seals? I just went through this same problem on my '87. Leak down tests will not tell you if the guides are bad as your valve will be fully seated against the seat. The only way to know if they are bad is to remove the valve cover and see if you can move the stem. Usually exhaust guides go bad first. However, they will not cause oil consumption. Oil consumption has to come from the intake side which could be bad intake guides or simply bad valve stem seals. Also, 8k sounds ridiculous. Now, that all depends on what they are doing but 5k is more inline with the "typical" top end rebuild.

Scott

 

One more thing, Peter is giving you good advice. Rule out the simple things at first. Are you overfilling the oil? Also, make sure you don't have an engine venting problem. I routed my main engine vent line into a milk jug to make sure that wasn't the problem when chasing down my oil consumption problem. Too much backpressure isn't likely but its cheap to rule out.

Scott

 

that's really too much money man.
and like Pete said, post what exactly he's going to do for that 8k

 

I appreciate all the responses, and Peter, you definitely did not insult me. I was very particular about checking the oil correctly, and she was consuming about a quart every 300-400 miles. I was using Castrol 20W-50. My mech did conduct a leakdown and also removed the valve covers to test lateral play of the stems, and that is how he determined it needs a valve job.

I will get back to you guys when I get a copy of the estimate.

Thanks again.

 

[QUOTE=autovon;4767613]Iremoved the valve covers to test lateral play of the stems, and that is how he determined it needs a valve job.QUOTE]

Thats really the only way to know for certain that your guides are bad. I'm in the same boat as you. My exhaust valves are shot. Are you going to put new piston rings in there? You might as well since it will all be apart.

Scott

 

I was thinking no on piston rings since my leakdown numbers were good, but I'm rethinking that since the engine will be apart anyway. I'll see what my mech says.

 

Just thought I'd post some pics for you guys. Happy VD!!!