ked

"it seems you're suggesting that E30 M3 values be lumped into the same category as any other 'M car.' "

No, I am stating (not suggesting) precisely what I stated. There is more to investment value / collectability of a car than rarity. For the E30 M3, that means the investment grade examples must also have a history (international competition success in the hands of a name driver, for instance), & be in great condition (as well as being a great car in its time, as it was).

Compared to the Porsche 911? Of course - among production-based cars, what other marque & model would one wish to be compared to? The 911 is the target, as always. So, how is a famous E30M3 doing in the marketplace vs a 911 Turbo raced by Brumos or Kremer? What does SCM have to say about the E30M3?
cheers!

{from an ex-BMW salesman, ex-Nat Capitol Chapter BMWCCA, owner past/present of '69 1600, '70 1600, '73 2002A, '76 530iA, '84 528e, '87 325eA, '92 318i... Yes, I LIKE BMWs, but I don't invest in them... how are those 3.0 CSLs doing?}

Trader220

I’ve owned both cars so here is my 2 cents. First thought is that although the e30 M3 sticker'd for 36 ish, you could buy them big discounts to the sticker price as many were on lots when I bought mine. I paid 27.5 brand new from Braman in West Palm Beach and drove it back north. The only issues I had with my m3 were the constant warping of front rotors, other then that I never had any issue that was not related to normal ware. The 1990 and 91’s also had airbags if that appeals to you. I’ve also owned a large number of 911’s all over the spectrum of years but all air cooled. I found the M3 to be more practical, in that I could easily fit 2 golf bags in the truck and even 4 people if I had to. The flip side was my personal grin factor was always greater in any of the 911’s.

It’s a tough choice since I really enjoyed the m3 and the 911’s. The other point is that neither of those cars are going to be good investments or will go up significantly in value. Yes, you may be able to own and operate one at a very cheap overall cost when all is said and done and the car is sold, but if you believe you’re going to make money or beat inflation with it I think you’re mistaken. In the end they are both “toys” which to a certain degree can be used for some daily commute or sporting and done at a very reasonable cost.

RSR-Vlad

not a good advise, e30 m3 is a wolf in wolf's clothing, it can't be trained to become a house pet or a cute dog, it's a predetor raised to attack on the race track, it was designed a race car and adopted for the streets, it won more races for the BMW than any other car...


you may not be a BMW enthusiast, but before you speak, think ! At lease that is what old wise men always say. Yu have no idea what you are talking about and you sound very foolish. FYI - euro ricers don't like Supras, that's the JDM crowd, euro ricers preffer euro cars and proly know about e30 m3 a lot more than you would think

somewhat agreed, I respect the e28 M5, even though there were only 1500 of them sold in the US compared to 5000 e30 M3s, the e30 M3 is bringing more money and is more popular among the hard core BMW enthusiasts because of it's Motorsport history. E28 M5 may be a better choice for a DD but then an e34 M5 is even better...but since it's a 4 door sedan it is in a different league than an e30 m3 or the 911.

Without a doubt, the e30 M3 was the car that put an 'M' on the map of Motorsport

bmwm3n528

I now see where you were going with your statement, it just initially appeared you were (as I said) throwing an E30 M3's production-car values into the same as any other 'almost classic' M car (i.e. E28 M5, E24 M6, E34 M5).

As you said though, comparing 'Famous' E30 M3 Race car values to that of 911 Turbo Race cars of the similar era is blasphemous.

No hard feelings, it's more than obvious you're a true enthusiast, and not just a brand *****.

BTW, I keep reading more critic's thoughts on where CSLs (Especially with prior race history) are going, and the trend seems to be that they'll be heavy hitters in the near future.

ked

"No hard feelings, it's more than obvious you're a true enthusiast, and not just a brand *****."

thanks, that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day (except my daughter's "thanks, Dad!" after helping her prepare for a Chem exam). selling Bimmers in the mid-'80s was a challenging time - convincing long-time enthusiasts to ignore yuppie imagery and just drive the damn cars (the "e" concept notwithstanding, a fine design ahead of its time). as for the M cars, I was already taken w/ the 320i Turbo, Alpina pkgs & of course, who can forget the 1800TiSA? Maybe there IS hope for the CSL - rust has a way of creating rarity... (and watching Hans Stuck wail at Road Atlanta is a performance I will never forget).

flatsixnut

Nice garage set you have there, but......
You obviously did not read my reply correctly. My statement about the ricer demographic was correct...you just read wrong. You were just in a hurry to defend your love, and I understand.

As far as "on topic". The e30 m3 is more of a collectible than a 3.2 or an SC. There I said it.......its true and we all know it. But I still would not want one.

RSR-Vlad

and nobody blames you for that, to want the e30 m3 you have to be die hard BMW fanatic with great knowledge and appreciation of the marque and remember the success that the e30 m3 achived in competition.

here is my cabrio

Jay H

I'm not a big BMW fan, nor am I a convertible fan, but damn, that is just plain hot.

2002M3Drew

Love both choices. The E30 is on my list of cars I need to have, along with the E28 M5 (my favorite 5'er, ever).

That said, going back to the second post and a few others, I have to disagree completely on the analysis of the E30 vs. 911. The E30 M3 is becoming increasingly difficult to buy because of all of the kids that have been buying them over the past ten years or so. Far too many have become Ebay specials. They are (and always have been) frighteningly expensive to maintain. The engine is unique to this car within the E30 series, obviously, and was only produced for a few years. Parts spares will eventually become scarce...it isn't like the motor shares parts with a 325. The high costs of ownership mean that many of them were not maintained properly (much like other bargain exotics like the 928, the 944 Turbo, the Ferrari 308, etc). Probably the best place to find one is through a CCA member, but even there you have to be careful.

The 911, by comparison, does not seem to catch the attention of the younger market like the 944, 951, and even the 928 does. There are many many examples of clean and well-maintained 911s out there. What's more, the 911 is a durable car. They seem to not wear out. They also are holding their values. I do agree that the E30 M3 will eventually go up in value, particularly with nice examples becoming so scarce. The ownership costs of a 911 should be far less than the M3. Parts are rediculously available and cheap for the SC and Carrera...not only did they makke a ton of them, most are still out there running around!

You cannot compare street performance...the 911 SC or Carrera has plenty of punch for the street, and is a blast on the track. The E30 M3 is like driving a 318 on the street...it only becomes a beast at 9/10's on the track...and there are a blast! Make mine either Diamantschwartz oder Lachssilber!

Amber Gramps

Guys I know I'm late and uneducated on this topic but the pictures of the red cabrio got me thinking. In 1988 I was friends with a kid who's parents owned a BMW dealership in the Burke/ Rolling Valley/ Fairfax area just outside of D.C. They kept a car at the house that was unlike anything else they had on the lot. It was a small blue cabrio that I had the opportunity to drive only once. I remember taking it, as we did with the cars they took in in trade, over to George Mason University where we got it airborn!!!! Could that have been one of the E30 M3 cars? Or, what would it have been? I remember them saying the car was not available to the general public, or wasn't U.S. legal, or some other mumbo jumbo car salesman story that really made me want one.

2002M3Drew

There was never a regular production E30 M3 convertible. That red car is either a chopped coupe, or a converted former regular 3'er cab.

Brett San Diego

There was an E30 M3 cab, but it was never sold in the US. It is not clear whether Vlad's car started life as a true M3, but with the later M3 inline 6 transplant, it's gotta be fast now. Good looking car.

Brett

onboost

Vlad, Nice stable-mates you have there!

Speaking as an enthusiat and owner for many years of both Porsche and BMW and having previously worked in sales and service for each, I have to agree with you on your points above except the last one.

Although beyond the reach of most, I feel that the M1 is the car put the "M" on the map of Motorsport for BMW. This is the car that led to the resurgence of the Motorsport brand as we know it. Right after or during the procar series BMW began to push and market the "M" Brand starting with the E12 M535, with the next big hitter being the M6 and continuing with the current "M" brand offerings.

Jumping back to the E30 M3.. great car with some investment potential... although production numbers were high for a collector car and finding a good one is somewhat of a challenge as so many were just plain flogged around and have lacked in proper up-keep. Production was not as high as the 911, and combined with those that have been wrecked or gone missing.. ther are becoming fewer and fewer around. I do think it will be sometime before they really begin to take off. However, I have seen a few that have brought some impressive numbers lately and a friend of mine here in NoVA, (whom you probably know), sold his just about a year ago at what I thought was an impressive number. It was worth it as the car was as close to flawless as I've seen.

As a daily driver, I personally prefer the 911 as it the M3 is a bit buzzy.. in 911 lore it reminds me of an old 2.2 S I owned.. it always wanted you to keep it up on the cams!

I have owned many BMWs including the E30 M3, along with several Alpina cars, and many Porsches.. some of which were daily drivers. The last one being my 73S, which I'm now restoring... we used to call that one the M3 hunter!

Cheers,

Paul

onboost

Ked..

Trying to figure out who you are.... what dealership did you sell at and when were you part of Nat Capitol Chapter BMWCCA?

I was Concours chair from 1991 through 04, hosted the 96 O'fest in Vienna, VA at Evans Farm Inn. Was at Passport BMW during the mid 90's as part of my divorce forced labor punishement!

Paul

bmwm3n528

Brett, Vlad's car started life as a Non-M Cabriolet.

The US S52B32 in the Cabrio is nothing to his "Warsteiner Replica" which features that beautiful Euro S50B32 accompanied by the 6-speed manual.