Collectibility of 3.0 SC or 3.2 Carrera vs E30 M3?
10-21-2007, 11:41 PM
#16
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A lot of good discussion and points brought up.
Ideally I would end up with both but its a hard sell to the wife to start stacking up weekend drivers while paying for 2 kids in college. It was a Porsche that led me into German cars at all (a 2002 Carrera 4S to be exact and yes, I know thats vastly different from an air-cooled 3.2) but went to BMW first needing a daily driver for 15,000 miles a year and hauling teen kids and family.
I'm not into trying to impress anyone with either car and the most valid points are the ones about drive/buy what you LIKE first. I'm just thinking if I buy the one with potentially better long term resale, I can always trade 'down' in price at a future date or later buy the less valuable car.
Thanks again for all the input.
Ideally I would end up with both but its a hard sell to the wife to start stacking up weekend drivers while paying for 2 kids in college. It was a Porsche that led me into German cars at all (a 2002 Carrera 4S to be exact and yes, I know thats vastly different from an air-cooled 3.2) but went to BMW first needing a daily driver for 15,000 miles a year and hauling teen kids and family.
I'm not into trying to impress anyone with either car and the most valid points are the ones about drive/buy what you LIKE first. I'm just thinking if I buy the one with potentially better long term resale, I can always trade 'down' in price at a future date or later buy the less valuable car.
Thanks again for all the input.
10-22-2007, 09:39 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
Good luck with your search.
It was an E30 325is that brought me to German cars. After it racked up 240,000 street miles, a cage was put in and we used it for 3 12 hour endurance races. It's still racing somewhere and to the best of my knowledge the head has never been off the engine. Fantastic cars. In it's second race we qualified second on the pole in a field of 40 cars, and the pole setter was the president of the SCCA.
I am restoring an '89 325ix to give to my 16 year old daughter. It's amazing how easy and inexpensive it is to get parts - except for the front axles, which are unobtainable, but rebuildable.
Steve
84 Carrera
64 356C race
00 M5
02 G500
It was an E30 325is that brought me to German cars. After it racked up 240,000 street miles, a cage was put in and we used it for 3 12 hour endurance races. It's still racing somewhere and to the best of my knowledge the head has never been off the engine. Fantastic cars. In it's second race we qualified second on the pole in a field of 40 cars, and the pole setter was the president of the SCCA.
I am restoring an '89 325ix to give to my 16 year old daughter. It's amazing how easy and inexpensive it is to get parts - except for the front axles, which are unobtainable, but rebuildable.
Steve
84 Carrera
64 356C race
00 M5
02 G500
10-22-2007, 06:26 PM
#18
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I own both! Just found the M3 and it wasn't easy. Sooo right now I have absolutely no doubt that the M3 would be easier to sell if I had to than the 88 911. I can only imagine that the E30 M3 will only get more exclusive and difficult to find.
byw, the e30 M3 is no grocery getter. In fact, the full performance of the car is NOT going to be found on the street...only on the track. Sort of like the 911
Both are easy to work on and expense of parts is similiar. Good Luck. Either way, you win.
byw, the e30 M3 is no grocery getter. In fact, the full performance of the car is NOT going to be found on the street...only on the track. Sort of like the 911
Both are easy to work on and expense of parts is similiar. Good Luck. Either way, you win.
10-22-2007, 06:43 PM
#19
Both will only rise in value.. is that what everyone wants to hear? The M3 will be more collectible soley because of the smaller production numbers.. but like all collectibles, it is CONDITION that is key. Modding an M3 should bring the same perils as Modding an SC or Carerra. These cars are already 20+ years old, for the most part. Parts will get harder to find. Originality will be stressed for "top" cars.
However, I think the audience for the E30M3 is much smaller than the 911. To many people, the 911 IS Porsche.. the E30M3 is not, per se, "BMW" to everyone.. it might be a 2002TII, or an M5 or M6 or M1 as the quintesential BMW. Most Porsche buffs dont say "the 914 IS porsche, or the 944 is.. or insert any Porsche model (save the 356
)"
That said, I was followed by a ratty E30M3 today and did think to myself.. if a 911 could carry 4 people, it would be an E30M3
However, I think the audience for the E30M3 is much smaller than the 911. To many people, the 911 IS Porsche.. the E30M3 is not, per se, "BMW" to everyone.. it might be a 2002TII, or an M5 or M6 or M1 as the quintesential BMW. Most Porsche buffs dont say "the 914 IS porsche, or the 944 is.. or insert any Porsche model (save the 356
)"That said, I was followed by a ratty E30M3 today and did think to myself.. if a 911 could carry 4 people, it would be an E30M3
10-22-2007, 10:54 PM
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Lucky bastard (just kidding...sort of)
I had a 3.0 or 3.2 Carrera as first on my wish list, but I recently went to BMWCCA Octoberfest. By a mistake too complex to describe, I was lumped in with all the //M cars for the autocross and the feature car this year was the E30 //M3. I followed a friend all the way there who has a Henna red '88. After spending all day watching E30's, I started thinking differently. Yes I know I would see a different view if I spent all day at Porsche Parade, but I completely understand what you mean that it's potential will never be recognized on the street.
I have a great daily driver now but it doesn't wow me at the autocross events. I just need a 'toy' extra car to keep a very long time and e willing to put a lot of money into it to keep it into a condition just under show car but above a normal driver.
BTW, each of these two cars I've only driven once, not really enough time to get a full impression of either.
byw, the e30 M3 is no grocery getter. In fact, the full performance of the car is NOT going to be found on the street...only on the track. Sort of like the 911 .
.
I have a great daily driver now but it doesn't wow me at the autocross events. I just need a 'toy' extra car to keep a very long time and e willing to put a lot of money into it to keep it into a condition just under show car but above a normal driver.
BTW, each of these two cars I've only driven once, not really enough time to get a full impression of either.
10-23-2007, 03:17 AM
#21
Get the air cooled 911. Reason: it's like nothing else you'll own or drive. It's a go-cart, raw, loud, responsive, fun, no cup holders, lousy AC, cool looking flat6, smell of burnt oil after a long drive, etc. (and proud of it all). It affects all of your senses...sight/sound/smell/feel. Perfect for the weekend toy.
Don't get me wrong....I love bmw's. My email is 'bimerz'. I've had bmw's in my garage since my then new '86 e30 325es. In fact, my 'next' toy will be a diamondschwartz e30 M3. BUT, if I had one to choose, it'd be the 911.
Despite the M3's racing heritage, high revving S14, etc, it's still kinda plush, and not unlike what you might have for a daily driver. On any given Sunday morn, you want to climb into something DIFFERENT. Nothing is like an air cooled 911. Nothing.
Mike
'86 3.2 coupe
Don't get me wrong....I love bmw's. My email is 'bimerz'. I've had bmw's in my garage since my then new '86 e30 325es. In fact, my 'next' toy will be a diamondschwartz e30 M3. BUT, if I had one to choose, it'd be the 911.
Despite the M3's racing heritage, high revving S14, etc, it's still kinda plush, and not unlike what you might have for a daily driver. On any given Sunday morn, you want to climb into something DIFFERENT. Nothing is like an air cooled 911. Nothing.
Mike
'86 3.2 coupe
Last edited by MIK911; 10-23-2007 at 03:35 AM.
10-23-2007, 07:02 AM
#22
Drifting
Get the air cooled 911. Reason: it's like nothing else you'll own or drive. It's a go-cart, raw, loud, responsive, fun, no cup holders, lousy AC, cool looking flat6, smell of burnt oil after a long drive, etc. (and proud of it all). It affects all of your senses...sight/sound/smell/feel. Perfect for the weekend toy.
Don't get me wrong....I love bmw's. My email is 'bimerz'. I've had bmw's in my garage since my then new '86 e30 325es. In fact, my 'next' toy will be a diamondschwartz e30 M3. BUT, if I had one to choose, it'd be the 911.
Despite the M3's racing heritage, high revving S14, etc, it's still kinda plush, and not unlike what you might have for a daily driver. On any given Sunday morn, you want to climb into something DIFFERENT. Nothing is like an air cooled 911. Nothing.
Mike
'86 3.2 coupe
Don't get me wrong....I love bmw's. My email is 'bimerz'. I've had bmw's in my garage since my then new '86 e30 325es. In fact, my 'next' toy will be a diamondschwartz e30 M3. BUT, if I had one to choose, it'd be the 911.
Despite the M3's racing heritage, high revving S14, etc, it's still kinda plush, and not unlike what you might have for a daily driver. On any given Sunday morn, you want to climb into something DIFFERENT. Nothing is like an air cooled 911. Nothing.
Mike
'86 3.2 coupe
As Porsche stated "Accept no Substitutes"
John
10-23-2007, 01:02 PM
#23
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"The M3 will be more collectible soley because of the smaller production numbers"
low prod #s do not in-&-of-themselves make a car investment grade. there are plenty of examples of low prod / low value sports cars. iconic status is another factor (M cars do not rise to that status, imo), as is competition history (M cars have a bit of this, but not like the 911), and buyer-market demand profile back-in-the-day (again, points to 911... & the M cars were a bit weak).
I think it is worthwhile to clearly distinguish an investment grade car (one that you would apply criteria as any discretionary niche asset investment) vs a driveable & driven, quality car one can show & enjoy w/o losing too much $ along the way. Most 911s (not the early RS, for instance) & almost all M cars fall among the later.
low prod #s do not in-&-of-themselves make a car investment grade. there are plenty of examples of low prod / low value sports cars. iconic status is another factor (M cars do not rise to that status, imo), as is competition history (M cars have a bit of this, but not like the 911), and buyer-market demand profile back-in-the-day (again, points to 911... & the M cars were a bit weak).
I think it is worthwhile to clearly distinguish an investment grade car (one that you would apply criteria as any discretionary niche asset investment) vs a driveable & driven, quality car one can show & enjoy w/o losing too much $ along the way. Most 911s (not the early RS, for instance) & almost all M cars fall among the later.
10-23-2007, 04:40 PM
#24
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Lucky you! I had to miss it due to childbirth (guess that's a good reason). But, I'm still slightly depressed thinking about missing it. I'm the kind of guy that was thinking about buying an e30 M3 just for that event, but the baby came 4 weeks early. Oh well. If that's as bad as my life gets, I have no complaints!
10-23-2007, 10:17 PM
#25
I think it is worthwhile to clearly distinguish an investment grade car (one that you would apply criteria as any discretionary niche asset investment) vs a driveable & driven, quality car one can show & enjoy w/o losing too much $ along the way. Most 911s (not the early RS, for instance) & almost all M cars fall among the later.
The only modern collectible 911 right now seems to be the '88 and '89 Club Sport model with an odd color, good history and ultra low mileage. Even '89 Speedsters were built in enough quantities that we won't see collectiblity for years yet on these.
10-28-2007, 01:13 AM
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"The M3 will be more collectible soley because of the smaller production numbers"
low prod #s do not in-&-of-themselves make a car investment grade. there are plenty of examples of low prod / low value sports cars. iconic status is another factor (M cars do not rise to that status, imo), as is competition history (M cars have a bit of this, but not like the 911), and buyer-market demand profile back-in-the-day (again, points to 911... & the M cars were a bit weak).
low prod #s do not in-&-of-themselves make a car investment grade. there are plenty of examples of low prod / low value sports cars. iconic status is another factor (M cars do not rise to that status, imo), as is competition history (M cars have a bit of this, but not like the 911), and buyer-market demand profile back-in-the-day (again, points to 911... & the M cars were a bit weak).
I think the point has definitely been made though, an E30 M3, in most respects is going to have more 'collectability' between it's history and lower production numbers.
Last edited by bmwm3n528; 10-28-2007 at 08:36 PM.
10-28-2007, 01:28 AM
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I think you are way off with this statement. I dont think ANYONE that buys an older 911 is buying it for a status symbol. 
I actually think that most know exactly what they are buying. M3's on the other hand....from what I have seen are bought more and more by kids. It is a car that is the dream car of the euro ricers much like the Supra and Skyline are the dream cars of all the ricer kids.
An older 911 is usually a persons toy. They have a daily driver, and the spouse has a daily driver. The 911 is taken out for "self" enjoyment, not for the enjoyment of others. It is driven for the fun of it and not driven to some "place", to be shown off. They are driven on the back roads not on some busy street. This is why you dont see alot of older 911's on the road....the driver wants to enjoy it for himself... NOT as a "status symbol" to show off to others.
In my area I see about as many M3's as I do 350Z's....on every street corner. I like their looks and engineering, but I have no desire for the car whatsoever. I have a truck that I "use", and my wife drives an SUV. These are both purpose built vehicles. So as my toy I want something special that can stir "my" soul. There is no way an older 911 can be compared in any way with an M3...sorry.
two completely dif cars.
I actually think that most know exactly what they are buying. M3's on the other hand....from what I have seen are bought more and more by kids. It is a car that is the dream car of the euro ricers much like the Supra and Skyline are the dream cars of all the ricer kids. An older 911 is usually a persons toy. They have a daily driver, and the spouse has a daily driver. The 911 is taken out for "self" enjoyment, not for the enjoyment of others. It is driven for the fun of it and not driven to some "place", to be shown off. They are driven on the back roads not on some busy street. This is why you dont see alot of older 911's on the road....the driver wants to enjoy it for himself... NOT as a "status symbol" to show off to others.
In my area I see about as many M3's as I do 350Z's....on every street corner. I like their looks and engineering, but I have no desire for the car whatsoever. I have a truck that I "use", and my wife drives an SUV. These are both purpose built vehicles. So as my toy I want something special that can stir "my" soul. There is no way an older 911 can be compared in any way with an M3...sorry.
two completely dif cars.
Also, just because some younger folks have chosen to 'idolize' these machines and pimp them with stretched tires and oversized wheels doesn't mean they're any less collectable, or are any less of a car. True, they're not a bathtub, they're a sedan...Point, what's your point?
10-28-2007, 07:28 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
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As mentioned above, I think you've lumped E30 M3s into your typical 'M3'...I think it's important to stress, as I did above, that these cars weren't simply a marketing ploy, or a 3-series w/ a body-kit, as they're sometimes looked on as. These cars represent a very large part of BMW's Motorsport history, it's the Winningest Touring Car in History! I don't think it's fair you throw it in the same category as a 'cookie-cutter' 350Z (No offense to Z cars).
Also, just because some younger folks have chosen to 'idolize' these machines and pimp them with stretched tires and oversized wheels doesn't mean they're any less collectable, or are any less of a car. True, they're not a bathtub, they're a sedan...Point, what's your point?
Also, just because some younger folks have chosen to 'idolize' these machines and pimp them with stretched tires and oversized wheels doesn't mean they're any less collectable, or are any less of a car. True, they're not a bathtub, they're a sedan...Point, what's your point?
10-28-2007, 08:41 PM
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I've got huge respect for P-cars, don't get me wrong, I happen to work at a Porsche dealership and enjoy them more and more everyday. Unfortunately, at this point in my life, they're too expensive but I'd gladly replace any of my 'Blue Propellored' machines for a 951 or an SC like yours!
10-29-2007, 07:18 AM
#30
If you can get the M3 in reasonable shape, without a million miles on it you will be a lucky man. Why ? Because they are such great drivers cars that most have been and driven to advanced mileage.
They have an even more fanatical, cult like following than the 911. If you see a good one, and can afford it, BUY IT. I don't see you will ever have any problems selling it, unlike the 100s of SC owners offering up their cars on any given day, no offence intended.
They have an even more fanatical, cult like following than the 911. If you see a good one, and can afford it, BUY IT. I don't see you will ever have any problems selling it, unlike the 100s of SC owners offering up their cars on any given day, no offence intended.