markusO

"And the funny thing is that the car was ragged out. That sealed my confidence in targas."

Ed, what did you mean by 'ragged out'? Did the car have any structural mods that you were aware of (cage, etc.)?

Regards,
Markus
80 Super Carrera Targa

JMPRO

Thom, thanks for posting the pic . Yes you use two of the bars and yes it would be ideal to move the bottom mount out further but to where. cut new holes , weld on a bracket . The purpose of the bars is add stiffness and reduce chassie flex without going to a full roll cage and cutting and welding{FIRST DO NO HARM}. IS IT A COMPROMISE? Sure but one that works well for the average driver w/ an occasional x-cross.I don't claim that its the end all solution but after using the set up in my car and a friends for several months , I concluded that the car was stiffer,quieter and handled better. No scientific tests , just 30 years of seat of the pants porsche driving
thanks again for the help JERRY

JMPRO

Thom,I checked and the bracket isn't crooked it must be the camera angle. The bars work in compression. special price for the first five Rennlist members $239.00+S&H and you can use Pay Pal
Jerry

davis911s

Jerry, I don't mean to be rude in any way, or to "cut your business". But these look relatively simple to make. Has anyone ever tried to make thier own? This concept could be used to tie in a harness bar that would run the width of the car, as Thom was saying.

I am going to try to make these this winter, nothing else to do up here in Canada, haha. Will post results.

I am just wondering about what material to use, steel or strong aluminum? ideas?

Shawn

Clark Griswald

Sorry to throw a wet blanket on this, but I'm gonna have to say the level of triangulation delivered by these bars looks insignificant. To have any meaningfull effect, these would have to tie in toward the front of the door.

Secondly, the design is inneffective for a bar in compression. The thin strapping at the seat belt tie in points will want to bend because the rod ends allow the center bar to rotate length wise. That thin strapping will behave as a hinge under any real load.

You would do better with a single rigid bar from seat belt tie to seat belt tie, no rod ends. But that still wouldn't solve the triangulation problem.

Just one Engineers opinion.

Thom Fitzpatrick

Hey Shawn, et al:

I've been mulling this over in my head (never a good thing!)

I recently decided to go with 5 point harnesses in my '77. Since harnesses preclude the use of the back seat (and I don't have any 3' tall friends or kids). I made my own harness bar.

Since you get hung the same for a sheep as a lamb...

How about some sort of a cross-brace system? Something that goes up from the seat belt mount (or some point foreward) to the harness bar?

Robert Zampardi mentioned that he got really good results by using a 1/4" steel plate, heated and beaten to shape, from the seat belt mount back to the curve of the rear seat.

JMPRO

In responce to another post, the picture posted was not actually intended for publication because is of the prototype bars . The speculation in regards to the thin metal strapping is just that. the brackets are made 3/16" hardened steel of the same type uses by manufacters of off road suspension components. The rod ends have been revised to a rigid mount with no pivit point. The triangulation, is greater than you would guess, its base is 16". For those of use that don't want to weld, hack and cut on the p-car this is an easy to use solution, not the end all answer but everyone does not have the budget nor the inclination to go the full nascar route
Jerry

Steve, 914 guy

Hi Brad, Steve who used to work for franz here.
How about a roof?

But what do I know? I race a 914/4, shows you the quality of my decision making.

Chuck Harmon

I have a 83SC Targa and I have a harness bar and a strut tower brace for added support.For the money the combo of the harness bar and strut tower brace stiffens up pretty good.I also have 26mm rear torsion bars with the Netrix bushings and Bilstein Sport shocks on a lowered car,she handls very well.A roll bar would be the best fix but mine is a daily driver and I cannot afford the roll bar.

Vampire

I put in a Brey-Krause harness guide last week. It looks like a typical harness guide, except that it has bars coming down to the lower seat belt bolt, similar to the picture posted earlier. I don't know if this adds stiffening or not. Brey Krause Targa Harness bar

Thom Fitzpatrick

Hey, that's kinda what I had in my head!

Ed Bighi

Markus, what I meant by ragged out is that the car was in really bad shape. The kind of car that nobody would even look at in the used car market. Not even for a really low price. Really bad paint, interior, etc... It looked like crap. But underneath it had all the go fast suspension mods. The thing was fast. It never lost an autocross to anything except open wheel cars. And the thing was that while looking at it run, it seemed to go over bumps better than coupes, even though it had a stiff suspension. I am a chassis stiffness freak, but I alwas scratched my head when trying to understand that car or the low times it posted.

Thom Fitzpatrick

Sounds like my car, except the 'fast' part. Just to wait until I get this 3.6L conversion done, by golly!

I was at the shop today delivering parts and checking on the progress. My car is so 'ug' and un-shiny compared to some of the others that were there, but I comforted myself in knowing that I'd stomp them out on the road