ron mcatee

Ice, the only way you'll ever see that thermostat area is to remove some of the stuff off the top of the motor. There's no room to get the mirror in there the way it is now. The only other possibility I know of is to use a borescope. It's a long umbilical with a light on the end. It is similar to what doctor's use when they do a colonoscopy. It bends and twists and you see everything. We used them during jet engine periodic maintenance intervals. They cost big bucks, but if you know someone....ask them to borrow it.

theiceman

Actually we have one at work so I can get ......

here comes the part that consists of a million responses....


I am not sure where to stick it ...

Peter Zimmermann

Well, ice, I have to make an appointment for one, I'll ask...

Actually, if you remove the heater blower, the air filter and cover, and the rubber sensor plate/throttle body boot, you can see the thermostat/pressure switch area. But, if repairs are needed, a partial drop is necessary.

Cam lobe pitting can be seen while you turn the engine over by hand. You can see each lobe just before it contacts the rocker...

Amber Gramps

Ice, i have given great study to your photo and know the problem. it looks like something is missing. it should not be that hard to figure out. don't want to post on the board. I'll check back this evening to see if you figured it out.

dsmith

ice,looking back, i don't think you ever pulled your motor for the usual oil leak fixes. now would be a good time. you'll get a better idea of what's going on. i'll even wait until sunday for you to catch up!

in fact, you have WAY more posts than Pete and you've never even pulled the motor! j/k

Amber Gramps

ice,


come on it's funny, ah...


you are missing the hockey stick!

SeattlePorsche

Hi Iceman,
I agree with the partial engine drop at least. Exposure is key to making a good diagnosis and repair for that matter. I installed my rocker shafts dry. I have heard that the RSR seals are not necessary. I thought it was Pete that reinforced me going with the dry method. From what I read, the key is cleaning the bores out real well and tightening up a little more than spec. They said in my readings that only the virgin engine will not leak at the spec. I can't remember for sure right now, but I think the spec is 13 N.m and the recommendation is 18 N.m. Some pro named Walt something recommended the dry technique.

If you do decide to do the partial drop, I wouldn't even bother to make the diagnosis on t-stat. I would just pull it out and replace the seal. And the breather gasket and a new oil sender. I think the whole thing will cost only 10 bucks or so.

Shouldn't you be able to tell if the rocker shafts are leaking by looking inside after you remove the valve covers. Some of the depressions have oil flowing in there, and some only air so you would see oil stains if they were leaking.

Peter Zimmermann

ice: And the missing piece is... a hockey stick? You mean to tell me that the additional lid support was only necessary after you started working on the car?

theiceman

I man I'm getting hammered today ...

The hockey stick was there to take my very first pictures of the car when got it , and I needed an Avatar.... It it seams my Avatar is now talked more about than the car ..

As far as the leaks go , I am just really trying to do what I can without major surgery, I am sure there are people on the list who understand the least invasive method is best until deamed surgery is required ..
wouldn't you say James ?

anyway the summer is so short here I don't want to spend some of it with my engine dropped if I don't have to. the only problem I have is some oil drips when stop the car so I wil not park the car in friends/ neighbours driveways as I think this is impolite to park a leaker in their driveway.

If I can fix some of this without the drop I will, but i do know the cam O ring is leaking on both sides now , which for me at least requires a complete engine removal.

BTW james when you did your engine did you end up taking the cam towers off ? can't remember. If so did you put the one piece oil return tubes in ?

I had the kidney off last year to clean it up so not a big deal to take it off again and have a look back there. if I see a leak that will be enough for me to do the partial drop.

Thanks guys

PS anyone know where i can get the dichromate hose clamps that go around the heater hose from the blower in back? mine are missing them and the silver ones from the hardware store look like CRAPOLLA .

SeattlePorsche

Nope, I left the cam towers on and put in new collapsible tubes in with Dow Corning silicone lube (111? I think). No leak there now, but yours sound ok.

I agree with the short summer. The leaks you have don't sound bad and I don't think you are damaging anything. But you could crawl under and see if the oil is dribbling over the front and onto the tranny housing. If so, then it might be from the triangle of gaskets up top.

Yup, least invasive is always the way to go...

theiceman

Tranny housing and stater areas are good and dry, I remember looking at your pics and seeing it definitely spilled over onto the starter motor area so I checked there first.

Peter Zimmermann

ice: You're earlier comment about the three pipe into one collector (near/below the engine oil cooler) being dry is a sure tip-off that the thermostat o-ring also is dry. FYI: I wish that some of our friends were as polite as you; one of them was over a few weeks ago, when they drove off in their POS I found a large puddle of ATF on my concrete. Fortunately I found the mess and got it cleaned up before it stained! Sheeesh... All hose clamps used on your car carry a Porsche part number, but I'm not sure if some have become NLA. I always go to the dealer first, you're so right about hardware store clamps.

theiceman

Thanks Pete

I never think of checking out the stealership but I can always try for these few parts.

dsmith

I dropped the motor today, removed valve covers and checked for oil in the wrong places (rocker shafts) and broken/pulled head studs. No issues on either. I have some full days of work and deadlines this week, so I may not do the cam seals until next weekend. I'll take pics then, not that it's anything new or interesting.
David

theiceman

On Sunday I jacked the car right up at the back end. I confirmed that I am not leaking from up top on Saturday by removing the kidney and checking things out. Sunday I went right under and checked the transmision area, collecter area on the exchanger and the starter and all were dry. I did notice something while there though , looks like a giant slotted round plug that looks to be in the oil cooler area, is this to drain the oil cooler and should I be removing this to drain oil when changing the oil ? it would be too much to ask if this plug is on the side of thermostat that would reamin closed so you can drain the oil out of there if the stat wasn't open.

Any one have any thoughts on this ?

Thanks