Engine drop question
Thread Starter
7th Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
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From: London, UK
Engine drop question
Hi all,
I was attempting my first engine drop over last weekend and just when all was going well and I was getting closer to drop time, I came across two engine mount bolts that would NOT budge. I tried all the tricks I have read about -heating, dousing with anti sieze spray, taking the weight off the mounts by jacking up the engine, but those bolts would not move. So, for my next attempt, I thought of another solution and would like to ask if anyone here has tried it or knows a reason why it should not be done: Basically I thought I could separate the engine cross-member from the rest of the engine via removing the 4 bolts just in front of the fan/pulley instead of the engine mounts as per the image attached.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this please!
Thanks in advance,
toto
I was attempting my first engine drop over last weekend and just when all was going well and I was getting closer to drop time, I came across two engine mount bolts that would NOT budge. I tried all the tricks I have read about -heating, dousing with anti sieze spray, taking the weight off the mounts by jacking up the engine, but those bolts would not move. So, for my next attempt, I thought of another solution and would like to ask if anyone here has tried it or knows a reason why it should not be done: Basically I thought I could separate the engine cross-member from the rest of the engine via removing the 4 bolts just in front of the fan/pulley instead of the engine mounts as per the image attached.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this please!
Thanks in advance,
toto
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,425
Likes: 1,622
From: Cambridge Ontario Canada
which bolts would not budge ?
If it is number 12 and an air gun won't work put an extender on it and use a breaker bar. put something down like lots of towels to protect the body. I useda i/2 inch drive with a 1/2 inch breaker bar and no problem.
If it is number 12 and an air gun won't work put an extender on it and use a breaker bar. put something down like lots of towels to protect the body. I useda i/2 inch drive with a 1/2 inch breaker bar and no problem.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 20,607
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From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
#12 certainly has caused a fair bit of trouble, but usually because someone tightened them with an impact wrench. Torque for those bolts is 65 lb/ft, and I've broken breaker bars getting them loose. Go to Lowes/Home Depot, etc. and buy a 4' piece of galvanized pipe with a substantial wall thickness and an ID that will allow fitment to your breaker bar. Cover, as Ice suggests, painted surfaces with very thick layers of towel, etc., stand back and pull. Don't be surprised if your spear (aka cross piece) breaks, my shop kept one of each version in stock for this event (one with internal threads, one with straight through holes). Don't mess with the center fasteners, you have to deal with the outboard issue sooner or later.
Pete
Pete
Track Day
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 21
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Those bolts shouldn't stick. If they do, you need to analyse why. I think the reason you don't want to undo "5" is that you won't have an opportunity to find the balance point of the engine on the jack. You're going to have to undo "12" at some point anyhow.
I suspect that you are trying to undo the bolts, with the car out of level.
If you take the engine out anything like I do, then you want to have the car lifted on four stands but flat and level when you drop the engine. Drop it to the floor, with a dolly between the engine and the jack. Once the engine is sitting on the dolly, on the floor, drop the front of the car back onto it's wheels, with the rear still on stands. This causes the back to lift a little, and yo need to make sure that the driveshafts don't get tangled up on their flanges on the side of the gearbox. You don't want to strain them.
To get the additional height needed to roll the engine out without dismantling the rear valance, use a long 5" square timber under the now much lighter rear of the car, at the back of the floorpan. Use a pair of normal jacks to lift the timber beam, with the body on top. This way you can easily achieve way more height than you will need, to roll the engine out on it's dolly.
Refitting is the reverse of removal.
Don't try to undo the bolts, until the jack is at the point of lifting the rear of the car off the stands, through the dolly and the engine. Only undo them a couple of turns to start, and do all four by the same small ammount. Gradually lower the jack and relift it to find the balance point as a result of the slack in the bolts.
If the bolts are rusted, use the same procedure, and a pair of 3/4" drive tommy bars to wind the nuts off.
I suspect that you are trying to undo the bolts, with the car out of level.
If you take the engine out anything like I do, then you want to have the car lifted on four stands but flat and level when you drop the engine. Drop it to the floor, with a dolly between the engine and the jack. Once the engine is sitting on the dolly, on the floor, drop the front of the car back onto it's wheels, with the rear still on stands. This causes the back to lift a little, and yo need to make sure that the driveshafts don't get tangled up on their flanges on the side of the gearbox. You don't want to strain them.
To get the additional height needed to roll the engine out without dismantling the rear valance, use a long 5" square timber under the now much lighter rear of the car, at the back of the floorpan. Use a pair of normal jacks to lift the timber beam, with the body on top. This way you can easily achieve way more height than you will need, to roll the engine out on it's dolly.
Refitting is the reverse of removal.
Don't try to undo the bolts, until the jack is at the point of lifting the rear of the car off the stands, through the dolly and the engine. Only undo them a couple of turns to start, and do all four by the same small ammount. Gradually lower the jack and relift it to find the balance point as a result of the slack in the bolts.
If the bolts are rusted, use the same procedure, and a pair of 3/4" drive tommy bars to wind the nuts off.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 20,607
Likes: 16
From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
Yep, and if that doesn't work use the Canadian method. Put a block of ice under the engine, loosen everything and use a hair dryer to melt the ice. Install in reverse order.
Pete
Pete
Track Day
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 21
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Originally Posted by Peter Zimmermann
Yep, and if that doesn't work use the Canadian method. Put a block of ice under the engine, loosen everything and use a hair dryer to melt the ice. Install in reverse order.
Pete
Pete
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Thread Starter
7th Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: London, UK
Thanks for the advice guys, I'll go for the breaker bar extension with the car level. By the way Pete I don't think I'll be needing those towels to protect the car given its current state: on the way to the paint shop soon!
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 20,607
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From: Bakersfield, CA, for now...
LOL!!! Oh, my, have you ever got your hands full! Enjoy watching the project come together... By the way, having the car level really makes no difference, except that it'll be easier to knock the car off its jack stands. We encountered some that were so tight we actually put the hoist down so that all four wheels were on the floor before breaking the bolts loose.
Pete
Pete
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Bend, OR
I start with the car level at a moderate height, get everythng undone, then drop the front end. This raises the rear end up off of the level engine. Works like Magic, and you don't need to lift the entire car 3' off of the ground.
Of course, that was before I got my lift which will make the next drop that much easiier.
Of course, that was before I got my lift which will make the next drop that much easiier.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 814
Likes: 1
From: Vah Beach
Toto does not have to worry about this, but be very careful when lowering the front if you have a front spoiler. Fortunately I caused no damage, but had the front of the car resting on its fiberglass spoiler when I did my engine drop.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 101
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From: bridgewater, NJ
go buy a sears compressor (20gal min) and a 1/2 air-gun + 3/8 air ratchet - impact sockets--- do it now!) , you will never-ever have a bad word for this purchase. My wife even tells friends how much use I get out of my compressor and mine is 20 yrs old.
From the looks, the car you will need to sand blast the body, so buy a small sand blaster also.
From the looks, the car you will need to sand blast the body, so buy a small sand blaster also.
Thread Starter
7th Gear
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
Thanks for the advice all, it worked out all right with a two foot breaker bar and the rear end still up on jack stands.
I reckon my idea to release the engine from the mount bar might have worked if I knew the exact balance point of the engine in advance!
Thanks for the encouragement Edgy, it is indeed an ice green metallic, though a '76. It isn't very green at the moment however, just a lot of bare metal, ready to go for its first proper respray in over 30 years in two weeks!
Now to remove targa bar, rear screen, petrol tank, fenders etc...!
greetings from london,
toto
I reckon my idea to release the engine from the mount bar might have worked if I knew the exact balance point of the engine in advance!
Thanks for the encouragement Edgy, it is indeed an ice green metallic, though a '76. It isn't very green at the moment however, just a lot of bare metal, ready to go for its first proper respray in over 30 years in two weeks!
Now to remove targa bar, rear screen, petrol tank, fenders etc...!
greetings from london,
toto