vinoviva

marcandkimmie,
Good point. If you really want value and fun- buy a clean, relatively low mile car and drive it forever!
If you are meticulous about maintenance--there is no reason at all that YOU can't put very high mileage on a good 3.2 911. They really are as close to bullet proof as any sports car that delivers this much pleasure will ever be. Instead of an investment to trade or sell, it is an investment in your driving pleasure. There is something cool about a well kept, well maintained 911 that the owner enjoys with total disregard to the odometer. As long as you KNOW what you have and and take pleasure in it--it may well be the best value you ever own in any automobile.

peteweishaupt

vinoviva, i have the 7th edition zimmermann book. do you have a checklist you use that might have additions things to check that aren't in the zimmermann book/checklist?

thanks,

pete

vinoviva

Peter's checklist is totally sound. I have done so many PPI's that I don't use a checklist anymore. Interestingly enough-what I look for specifically on any given car has a lot to do with where the car is located--and where it has been operated during it's life. I find certain common faults on all cars-but some specific to where they have been operated and the type of owner/driver. Again-I'm looking at one owner cars and also questioning (and sizing up) the owner/driver (usually in person). I usually don't expect a car owned by a female non-aggressive driver to have broken sway bar mounts for example. Cars owned in hot climates usually fare worse on leak-down tests. I've been into these cars for so long that I just have a sense of what to look for. There are common threads-but if you don't have the ability to do the PPI yourself- or if you don't own a lift for example--by all means pay for a PPI and if possible --hang out while it is being performed--even if you pass on the car it will be worth the education.

JamesR

Hey Guys!
All good points of view! When I bought my 88 G Red 911,Tail an
all, back in 2001 it had 106K on the clock. $19.6K an she was not mint.
Looking at 118K now>no leaks,extremely dependable,
an certainly most of all, as good as sex to drive an be seen in!!!
Us older guys,me included, it's OK to admit!!

Drive em guys!!!!! Enjoy..........

JamesR

fixnprsh

Wow, another 84-89 value thread, has it been 3 months already???????

fixnprsh

BTW my full optioned Black on Black Targa with 175K on the clock but looks like it has 25K miles is going through an extensive, and expensive, no holds barred rebirth with rebuilt, upgraded, updated everything. I would be asking top dollar for it if I ever decided to sell it (not likely as I will never find a nicer one)

Truth is, These cars are shrinking in nubers every year as accidents and such take more off the road, the nice ones get better care and owners reluctant to sell and the roaches fall by the way side, so the Carrera "middle class" of average cars is disapearing. I expect prices to keep climbing slowly but steadily, don't think we are in for a huge jump like the long hoods did within the next ten years, but lets face it, Porsches aren't hand built anymore and they ain't what they used to be

tone40

truly "handbuilt" Porsches were made? I know the volume of late model 911s (and Boxster, Caymans, Cayennes) are far greater than previous 911 (and 944 and 928, etc.) models. But the volume was still high enough to not be "handbuilt"?

Are the Carreras and SCs considered "handbuilt"? Lean manufacturing and inventory on hand limitations were initiated with the 986 and 996. It is fair to say that the Carreras and SCs were still mass produced to some degree?

Was there more human intervention in the QC process as compared to now?

Jay H

Tone,

Porsche switched over to more modern manufacturing techniques with the help of folks from Toyota in the mid '90's. They had to. I read once that 50% of the cars Porsche produced in the '80's were sent back for rework. We all know that rework is the most expensive work you can do in manufacturing.

So, even the 964 was still manufactured with more 'by hand' work. Though all of these cars most likely needed to be built with effecient assembly line procedures just due to the amount of units being built. 993's were probably starting to see more modern assembly techniques (due to Porsche really dropping the price on those cars, but still making good money), but those cars are still very robust cars and used exceptional materials. It seems to me that not until the 996 came were things 'cheapened' up.

I don't know what product margins were in the '80's and early 90's, but I've read that margin's were in the 20-35% range on 996's and up to 45% margins on 996 Turbos. That's huge. 996 prices stayed up as compared to '80's and '90's 911's, but I would bet production costs and raw material costs went down quite a bit as they modernized the assembly techniques and cheaped up materials where ever they could.

andrew911

It worked out well, but I didn't originally buy it thinking of investment. I sold it in 1999 because I wanted something different as my toy car (bought a 1990 6-speed corvette convertible), and I needed the $10K or so difference in the price of the cars as I was getting ready to buy a house. Had the corvette for 3 years, and had to get back into a porsche, thus my 964 cab. Glad I had the 'vette to get that big V8 torque out of my system, but the build, handling/ride tightness, and other porsche personality traits were lacking and missed by me. By 2002 I had purchased a 2000 540i sport/6-speed as my daily driver which would run circles around the L98 vette, and it was a 4-door with much better ride charastics!...at the end of the day I just wanted to get back into a porsche and the BMW's performance pushed me over the edge to upgrade back to the 911. Sorry for my long winded story


This thread is good as it gives a lot of different perspectives. While I love driving my 911, it's not a daily driver- I drive it every good weather weekend chance I get, and between lugging stuff around in my daily driver, or just doing other things on the weekend, I only get about 2,000-2,500 miles on her a year...but I smile the whole time

Jay H

I sure have to agree with this too. My '84 ain't no beauty queen, but she's a hoot to drive.

My 964 is just like Marc's old 964... It's so nice that I'm too worried about it to drive it anywhere like to work or run errands with it. I thought I was the only one that worried about sun damage...! So, that "forced" me to buy the '84 so I'd have something to drive!

Jay

c9c

Addict, what is the best way to sell these cars? I am thinking of buying the 89 and keeping it a while to enjoy and eventually sell it to buy another one. I noticed the ones on Ebay are really cheap and the usual Autotrader seems to be filled with low ballers. Thanks

vinoviva

c9c,
The best way to sell a 911 is to 1) Join the Porsche club and attend events--other members will get to know you and your car, 2) Rennlist classified are great--I have sold a few cars here and you usually end up dealing with knowledgeable people, 3) E-bay might be a good place to sell a car, but buying is a totally different story, plus a 911 is a difficult car to buy sight unseen--not to mention the necessity of a PPI. I have sold a car on e-bay---but would probably never buy one unless I saw it in person and performed the PPI.

Cars owned by PCA and Rennlist members are enthusiast owned cars. They love the marque and many times perform preventative maintenance. They may demand a slight premium because of the care and love that they have put into the car during their stewardship. I don't mind paying a premium for a nice car that has been previously obsessed over by another enthusiast.

jet911

DB: That must be a very long on ramp if you can get your P-car to 130 MPH. No way would my '86 do that! My '86 was fast as well and I had her topped out at just over 140 MPH, however it took a much longer distance than most on-ramps to get to that speed...

Regards,
Jim

vinoviva

Jet911,
Don't know where you were intending to post to, your post does not follow the thread.

samuel kinter

bought my 87 carrera targa from original owner with all books and records for 18.500 in 2002. rebuilt top end due to valve guide wear other than that general maintance she has 135k in the clock and is tight as she was new would not trade her for anything !!