Gift Horse
11-28-2002, 02:07 AM
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Gift Horse
Greetings:
On Monday a 2002 Carrera 4S arrived in my driveway, courtesy of Porsche Cars USA, with a set of keys and a license to have fun for a week. Why, you may ask? Because I am a journalist writing a story about Porsche, and they felt that I'd be better able to include impressions of the car if I spent some time in one.
I did not argue with them.
Now that I've spent some time in the thing, I begin to understand the allure of Porsches a little better than I did before. It is a truly awesome car. But I still do not understand why this particular car can fetch $85,000.
What is it about Porsches that drives people to sacrifice so much for the pleasure of owning and driving them? What sets a Porsche apart from other sports cars? What do you get out of your Porsche ownership?
Your thoughts are most eagerly welcomed.
Respectfully,
Michael Burr
On Monday a 2002 Carrera 4S arrived in my driveway, courtesy of Porsche Cars USA, with a set of keys and a license to have fun for a week. Why, you may ask? Because I am a journalist writing a story about Porsche, and they felt that I'd be better able to include impressions of the car if I spent some time in one.
I did not argue with them.
Now that I've spent some time in the thing, I begin to understand the allure of Porsches a little better than I did before. It is a truly awesome car. But I still do not understand why this particular car can fetch $85,000.
What is it about Porsches that drives people to sacrifice so much for the pleasure of owning and driving them? What sets a Porsche apart from other sports cars? What do you get out of your Porsche ownership?
Your thoughts are most eagerly welcomed.
Respectfully,
Michael Burr
11-28-2002, 04:58 AM
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I picked up my first Porsche a week ago today. I have driven it about 600 miles now. It is amazing how many little errands i had to run last week : )
To answer your question.
The car is a hoot to drive. It is raw, it reacts to your inputs immediately and it feeds back to you seamlessly.
The brotherhood of Porsche ownership is amazing. I posted a "Just got First Porsche" message here and got over a dozen welcome responses. I have people in other Porsches waving and smiling at me because i am in one. Never got that with any other car.
It is a timeless classic. I have been to the gas station 3 times last week. 2 of those 3 times the guy in the next pump said "nice car". The 3rd time, i was the only car in the station. I did not buy my car to impress anyone, this was totally unexpected, it is afterall a 14 year old car that cost less than a new Honda Accord.
It is not the fastest, best handling, most comfortable or nicest looking car i have owned, but it is the most amazing car i have ever had the pleasure of driving. I simply love it.
alf
To answer your question.
The car is a hoot to drive. It is raw, it reacts to your inputs immediately and it feeds back to you seamlessly.
The brotherhood of Porsche ownership is amazing. I posted a "Just got First Porsche" message here and got over a dozen welcome responses. I have people in other Porsches waving and smiling at me because i am in one. Never got that with any other car.
It is a timeless classic. I have been to the gas station 3 times last week. 2 of those 3 times the guy in the next pump said "nice car". The 3rd time, i was the only car in the station. I did not buy my car to impress anyone, this was totally unexpected, it is afterall a 14 year old car that cost less than a new Honda Accord.
It is not the fastest, best handling, most comfortable or nicest looking car i have owned, but it is the most amazing car i have ever had the pleasure of driving. I simply love it.
alf
11-28-2002, 11:15 AM
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While most Porsche owners may not take there cars to the track, there are a number of us who do and because of it, we understand the Porsche mystique quite well.
The first time I sat in a Porsche (bright red 1978 911SC) I felt this was about as close to a racecar as one could buy right off a dealer's lot. The driving position, a free-reving engine and the connection to the road made the car's racing heritage plainly obvious.
I specifically selected a Porsche because it meant I could join one of the world's largest car clubs get immediate access to race tracks of the Northeast and driving instruction to help me explore the car's limits. After just a few moments at Lime Rock, I realized it wasn't the car's limits I would be exploring, but mine. It was an exhilarating experience, one that I would repeat many times again as I strove to develop my driving abilities to match those of my vehicle. As my skills improved, I began to move up to Porsche's newer technology.
A Porsche may not be the most modern car or the easiest to drive, but when you get it right, there is no better feeling between man and machine.
Really, it is probably an addiction. Once you buy your first Porsche it leads to a certain kind of loyalty and commitment. This Board is evidence that there is a connection between owners that is unlike any other marque. If you scan the forums of BMW, Ferrari, Corvette or any other brand you will not find the same number of members or the same spirit of cooperation that you find with Porsche. I know this to be true because I have owned cars by these other manufacturers. It is part of being a member of the Porsche family.
The first time I sat in a Porsche (bright red 1978 911SC) I felt this was about as close to a racecar as one could buy right off a dealer's lot. The driving position, a free-reving engine and the connection to the road made the car's racing heritage plainly obvious.
I specifically selected a Porsche because it meant I could join one of the world's largest car clubs get immediate access to race tracks of the Northeast and driving instruction to help me explore the car's limits. After just a few moments at Lime Rock, I realized it wasn't the car's limits I would be exploring, but mine. It was an exhilarating experience, one that I would repeat many times again as I strove to develop my driving abilities to match those of my vehicle. As my skills improved, I began to move up to Porsche's newer technology.
A Porsche may not be the most modern car or the easiest to drive, but when you get it right, there is no better feeling between man and machine.
Really, it is probably an addiction. Once you buy your first Porsche it leads to a certain kind of loyalty and commitment. This Board is evidence that there is a connection between owners that is unlike any other marque. If you scan the forums of BMW, Ferrari, Corvette or any other brand you will not find the same number of members or the same spirit of cooperation that you find with Porsche. I know this to be true because I have owned cars by these other manufacturers. It is part of being a member of the Porsche family.
11-28-2002, 12:24 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
I can only mirror what others have already stated. Porsche is perhaps the only car company that builds cars out of passion, not the quest for numbers. There are many cars that are faster, more user freindly, and less expensive, but they arent P-cars.
Theres just something of a disease with these cars - you grow up admiring them, drive them in your mind for years, and when you finally own one, the sickness gets that much worse. Pretty soon you are hopelessly addicted and theres nothing you can do about it but complain what a POS your new 330i is compared to your 15 year old Porsche.
Theres just something of a disease with these cars - you grow up admiring them, drive them in your mind for years, and when you finally own one, the sickness gets that much worse. Pretty soon you are hopelessly addicted and theres nothing you can do about it but complain what a POS your new 330i is compared to your 15 year old Porsche.
11-28-2002, 03:30 PM
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"Porsche is perhaps the only car company that builds cars out of passion, not the quest for numbers"
Not entirely convinced of this based on their reduced factory presence in motorsports and their new SUV, but I also understand they are a company and must survive. Porsche build incredibly engineered automobiles that surpass the performance / safety levels of most anything on the road. Ownership is indeed special and for most people, once tasted, there is no substitute.
Happy Thanksgiving to All.
Not entirely convinced of this based on their reduced factory presence in motorsports and their new SUV, but I also understand they are a company and must survive. Porsche build incredibly engineered automobiles that surpass the performance / safety levels of most anything on the road. Ownership is indeed special and for most people, once tasted, there is no substitute.
Happy Thanksgiving to All.
11-28-2002, 07:59 PM
#7
"Porsche - There is no substitute"
Talk about truth in advertising. Now that you've driven a watercooled one - take out an air - cooled (any vintage) and see for yourself. Whereas other modern cars are excessively sanitary, neat and quiet, and annoyingly focus - group tested "perfect", the 911 is a driver's car,it has distinct traits, a personality, and I dare say, and it speaks to you. People are loyal to them because they're UNIQUE. Don't forget a bit eccentric. There is nothing else like a 911, and for that we are bonded to our cars.
And also, let's not forget the obvious - build quality and attention to detail that squashes pretty much anything else. (possible exception is an earlier Mercedes!) Now that, we can quantify.
rjp
Talk about truth in advertising. Now that you've driven a watercooled one - take out an air - cooled (any vintage) and see for yourself. Whereas other modern cars are excessively sanitary, neat and quiet, and annoyingly focus - group tested "perfect", the 911 is a driver's car,it has distinct traits, a personality, and I dare say, and it speaks to you. People are loyal to them because they're UNIQUE. Don't forget a bit eccentric. There is nothing else like a 911, and for that we are bonded to our cars.
And also, let's not forget the obvious - build quality and attention to detail that squashes pretty much anything else. (possible exception is an earlier Mercedes!) Now that, we can quantify.
rjp
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11-28-2002, 09:56 PM
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Hi. I will have to admit I was not always a Porsche fan. I never knew much about Porsche until about 3 years ago. I was a huge Corvette fan. I actually own a Corvette. I have driven various Mustangs as well. I love performance cars. A friend of mine got me interested in Porsche cars about 3 years ago. My friend drives a 1989 951 S (944 Turbo S). I still didn't think much when I first saw the car. I started studying the history of Porsche and learning a lot about the company. I have driven several Porsche cars over the last few years. After my experience with Porsche over the last few years, I can say only one thing. Porsche makes the best automobile in the world. Nothing else compares to Porsche. I would never pick a Corvette over a Porsche now. I still own my Corvette, but I also own a 1975 911 S, 1984 944, and a 1987 944. All three of my Porsches give me a great feeling that absolutely no other car can match. Porsche is committed to excellence and pleasing it's customers. No one else compares with Porsche in my book. And this is coming from a guy that grew up with Corvettes and other American performance cars. It only took me a few short years to lose my feelings for American sport and performance. Porsche is the best.
11-28-2002, 10:45 PM
#9
My dad brought me up on American muscle cars and I still have a soft spot in my heart for V-8's; but one test drive through the Alleghany mountains where brakes, handling, and cornering matter most and I was converted. Better fuel economy and less tire wear were unexpected bonuses. Brian Howe '86 944 '81 911SC '97 ZX-6R Ninja crotch rocket(for the few short,straight stretches) <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
11-29-2002, 02:16 AM
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Why is a Porsche worth $85K?
Because a Ferrari is worth $120K and up...way up.
Because the Porsche company has bred a lineage that has, since the begining in '64, answered the GT/sports car design problem in a unique way.
Because, under the skin, the car has the goods. Put one on the track, and it will drink all the abuse you can pour. Others wilt after a number of laps, brakes can fade, shocks can wither.
Because a 911 has been considered the defacto standard for steering feel and comunication since day one.
Because the cars dynamics are unique in the modern refined-to-sterility world, which are in large part defined by the engine location.
Because the company has heritage, and the car remains, to a degree, true to it's own, and it's company's roots.
The only other company that can claim the same level of heritage in racing and pure blooded sports and GT cars is.....Ferrari. And they cost more. Many Porsche owners though, will tell you that even if they had the K for a Ferrari, they would still choose a Porsche.
So in the end it's a combination of performance, build quality, driving dynamics and heritage. Which boils down to a unique mystique.
Because a Ferrari is worth $120K and up...way up.
Because the Porsche company has bred a lineage that has, since the begining in '64, answered the GT/sports car design problem in a unique way.
Because, under the skin, the car has the goods. Put one on the track, and it will drink all the abuse you can pour. Others wilt after a number of laps, brakes can fade, shocks can wither.
Because a 911 has been considered the defacto standard for steering feel and comunication since day one.
Because the cars dynamics are unique in the modern refined-to-sterility world, which are in large part defined by the engine location.
Because the company has heritage, and the car remains, to a degree, true to it's own, and it's company's roots.
The only other company that can claim the same level of heritage in racing and pure blooded sports and GT cars is.....Ferrari. And they cost more. Many Porsche owners though, will tell you that even if they had the K for a Ferrari, they would still choose a Porsche.
So in the end it's a combination of performance, build quality, driving dynamics and heritage. Which boils down to a unique mystique.
11-29-2002, 06:16 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
My answer will be a little different than most peoples' because I'm not passionate about cars. Well, except maybe for Ferraris. When you first look at $85k, yes, it looks like an awfully big number. If you break it down a little and analyze things in detail it makes more sense.
First, a C4 has the fairly sophisticated 4-wheel drive systems and a lot of options that are extra cost on a C2. So it's not hard to see where the $13k difference in price goes. Now start comparing a baseline $69k C2 to cars with similar performance. You can take a Mustang, slap a supercharger on it and rock-hard springs a la Saleen and save 30 grand. But that is a torture chamber to drive in comparison to a C2. A painted crosswalk feels like railroad ties when you drive over it. The noise is horrible, the ergonomics of the driving position stinks. And they are just not intended to be driven hard for long periods of time. A Corvette is faster for $45k, but has a chintzy interior and longterm reliability is an issue. Various Mercedes are about as fast or faster but not much cheaper if at all, and don't handle as well. There are no Japanese cars I can thing of to compare with, the NSX is even more expensive than a C2. The closest thing I can think of is an M3, but at it's core it's really just a hotrodded $30k 325. When pushed hard, it's modest roots will show.
In summary, the C2 is a very versatile high-performance car. Comfortable , smooth, and quiet when cruising, but able to survive repeated continuous hammering on the racetrack or autobahn. Go look at 10 used cars of whatever you choose to compare to a 911 that are 15 years old and you'll see that these things were built to run hard for a long time.
First, a C4 has the fairly sophisticated 4-wheel drive systems and a lot of options that are extra cost on a C2. So it's not hard to see where the $13k difference in price goes. Now start comparing a baseline $69k C2 to cars with similar performance. You can take a Mustang, slap a supercharger on it and rock-hard springs a la Saleen and save 30 grand. But that is a torture chamber to drive in comparison to a C2. A painted crosswalk feels like railroad ties when you drive over it. The noise is horrible, the ergonomics of the driving position stinks. And they are just not intended to be driven hard for long periods of time. A Corvette is faster for $45k, but has a chintzy interior and longterm reliability is an issue. Various Mercedes are about as fast or faster but not much cheaper if at all, and don't handle as well. There are no Japanese cars I can thing of to compare with, the NSX is even more expensive than a C2. The closest thing I can think of is an M3, but at it's core it's really just a hotrodded $30k 325. When pushed hard, it's modest roots will show.
In summary, the C2 is a very versatile high-performance car. Comfortable , smooth, and quiet when cruising, but able to survive repeated continuous hammering on the racetrack or autobahn. Go look at 10 used cars of whatever you choose to compare to a 911 that are 15 years old and you'll see that these things were built to run hard for a long time.
11-29-2002, 10:31 AM
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The reason a Porsche costs 85k is so that Porsche (only independant major car maker left) can make a profit and keep building cars, unlike almost all other car makers in the world that have been losing their shirts.
Oh and they build a dam good car
Oh and they build a dam good car
11-29-2002, 12:44 PM
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Hi Michael,
My wife and I currently own a 1987 Carrera Cabriolet. This is my second Porsche (1980 911 SC Targa previously) and I'll tell you that they appeal to so many people because they possess qualities that attract a broad range of personalities. For me it is the shape or body design and the performance. I think it is the most beautifully designed sports car. I turn my head to see one go by every time I'm driving or walking. The shape is pure art--it's metal sculpture with purpose--the way the fenders flare out on a turbo the curve of the rear end flowing into a tail... For engineers and mechanical types its the typical German precision, well thought out and refined design and the build quality. The fact that it's built to last and can take abuse with proper maintenance appeals to the value conscious. For me the car gives me a feast for my senses--I love even washing the beast. From the moment I approach the car I 'get' something--excitement. Sitting in the car I feel the seat firmly bracing me and the smell of leather. I look at the dash and see a layout designed to give the driver the most important information RPM's with ergonomic forethought. The ignition reminds me of the cars racing heritage--Lemans and countless other race tracks. Starting the car lets me hear a high performance engine that keeps me from turning on the stereo (that's not going to be upgraded). Driving it on long trips I'm never physically tired from the road and the ability to pass cars at 140 mph in a 15 year old car with confidence is difficult to put a price on. Having owned the car for 5 years if I choose to sell it (only to buy another) I would probably get close to my money back. If we could not afford the current model I would buy whatever 911 I could get my hands on. I read Excellence, Panorama and Christophorus magazines. I've been to the factory in Stuttgart. I am a fanatic.
Alex J.
1987 911 Carrera Cabriolet
My wife and I currently own a 1987 Carrera Cabriolet. This is my second Porsche (1980 911 SC Targa previously) and I'll tell you that they appeal to so many people because they possess qualities that attract a broad range of personalities. For me it is the shape or body design and the performance. I think it is the most beautifully designed sports car. I turn my head to see one go by every time I'm driving or walking. The shape is pure art--it's metal sculpture with purpose--the way the fenders flare out on a turbo the curve of the rear end flowing into a tail... For engineers and mechanical types its the typical German precision, well thought out and refined design and the build quality. The fact that it's built to last and can take abuse with proper maintenance appeals to the value conscious. For me the car gives me a feast for my senses--I love even washing the beast. From the moment I approach the car I 'get' something--excitement. Sitting in the car I feel the seat firmly bracing me and the smell of leather. I look at the dash and see a layout designed to give the driver the most important information RPM's with ergonomic forethought. The ignition reminds me of the cars racing heritage--Lemans and countless other race tracks. Starting the car lets me hear a high performance engine that keeps me from turning on the stereo (that's not going to be upgraded). Driving it on long trips I'm never physically tired from the road and the ability to pass cars at 140 mph in a 15 year old car with confidence is difficult to put a price on. Having owned the car for 5 years if I choose to sell it (only to buy another) I would probably get close to my money back. If we could not afford the current model I would buy whatever 911 I could get my hands on. I read Excellence, Panorama and Christophorus magazines. I've been to the factory in Stuttgart. I am a fanatic.
Alex J.
1987 911 Carrera Cabriolet
11-29-2002, 08:18 PM
#15
Well, if you want to find out why people will dish out big money to get a 911, do this. Send that 996 and it's keys back and try to get a drive in a 73 Carrera RS lightweight. A car that will challenge and delight all your senses. Then you will see why a lightweight, lot 161, recently sold for $127,440 at Barrett Jackson. Why am I mentioning the legendary RS instead of the 996? Because the RS has more of the attributes that make die-hard Porsche owners gather every penny to make a purchase. Besides, the RS will always be the best ambassador of the marque. Also, when someone is in the process of purchasing an RS, 10 times out of 10, there are no alternative vehicles in that purchaser's mind. The 996, on the other hand, sells well at that price because it is priced competitively for it's performance potential and target market. And a good percentage of its buyers do compare it to other brands, which was not the case with the air-cooled 911 buyer. Considering that fact, it must be priced right since it sells. Especially when one looks at the ridiculous prices that we see today for Silverado and F-150 based SUV's.