dvkk

How can you make such a claim without knowing the zinc level in the oil someone reading this may want to use?

Current M1 zinc levels are under 1000ppm, GM EOS is over 6000ppm. Simple math says that 2 pints of GM EOS will bring one 12qt oil change worth of M1 up to 1500ppm of Zinc.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w...uary232007.jpg

GothingNC

Ok, I neded to take another Tylenol after reading all this stuff again...

I'm going to stick woth Rotella in my SC and if that doesn't work, I'll just put the motor on the shelf and install an electric motor

John

Matt Romanowski

The math gets you to 1200 ppm IFF the Mobil one is actually at 1000 ppm. If it is under (which I believe it to be closer to 900 in accordance with API SM) it's below 1200 ppm on the aggregate and that is about the minimum you want to run.

You don't have to believe me. Ask a cam grinder. Ask an oil company. Ask YOUR oil company. Ask someone with an old flat tappet motor. Call the testing labs yourself and talk to the lab technicians - they know what's going on. Do your own research and believe that you got the right info (don't forget to read Hot Rod and other muscle car mags - they have had trouble with this too). Then if something happens, you can take responisiblilty.

JBO

I presume that if one wants to use Rotella, but wants max protection, the Rotella 5-40 synthetic is even better than the 15-40 dino, correct?

PS - I read in earlier threads from folks like Steve Weiner and Charles Navarro that Mobil 1 has sufficient Zinc and phosphorus, and like the Rotella/Delo does not need additives. Steve likes Mobil 1 15-50 best.

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

Matt:

If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest that you take a look at Mr. Navarro's oil analysis test results as thats pretty interesting with regard to the quantities of ZDDP in the various oils.

We have seen a LOT of engines over the past 30+ years and the camshaft/rocker arm wear issue has been relatively new, aside from spray bar problems. I would say that the frequency of worn and pitted cams and rockers has increased since about 2003 when the levels of ZDDP began to drop.

EOS and GM's Cam & Lifter Prelube do help and I think these additives will become necessary to forestall cam wear problems.

dvkk

If M1 was 1000, 2 pints of EOS would bring it up to 1545ppm.

bgiere

good article below:

http://www.hughesengines.com/general...icleID=1000039

Redline and Royal Purple will also have the necessary additives to minimize cam and lobe wear.
Motorcycle oils are another option...I see that Autozone sells Valvoline and M1 motorcycle oils.

Matt Romanowski

Hi Steve,

There seems to be a couple of discrepancies at the LN site. They says they got .14% of zinc out of Mobil 1, but we know that the new formulations conform to API SM which dictates levels below .08%. Many of their findings claim that many oils are over the .08% limit on oils that meet API SM. This doesn't make sense.

What I've learned from the oil companies is the best thing to do is pick an oil that does not conform to the latest standards (the link above by bgiere is excellent). This can be through using diesel oils or from "racing" oils. You have to be careful with racing oils becuase there is nothing that dictates what a "racing" oil is. Out of the Shell, Quaker State, Pennzoil product lines, there is only 1 oil that is a "racing" oil that fits the bill - it's made by Pennzoil.

Remember, Porsche people are not the only ones having problems. The best thing to do is let everyone get informed themselves and make their own decisions. I know what I've researched and learned, but some people will not agree with me. That's fine with me as long as they take the time to learn about it themselves and make an informed decision.

Matt

bgiere

Aonother option are certain marine grade oils. They are very shear stable and have the add's...somehwhat comparable to motorcycle oils.

Charles Navarro

All my testing was done middle to late last year and tens of samples, all at the same time. I can't say that the values have changed any, but I just mailed in another 10 or so samples to check and one of them is a duplicate from earlier testing (m1 0w40) that I am doing just for that reason, to see if they did have a change mid-year Zn and P levels. I can probably verify off the bottles what standard the ones I tested conformed to, since I have both the bottles and photos of each bottle for posterity.

rllevin

Can someone discuss whether the fully synthetic Shell Rotella T 5-40 is adequate for our engines? I assume it's the 5-40 Rotella listed here ( http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html ) so it should fullfill the requirements for aircooled engines. I'd prefer to use the fully synthetic rotella but most of the discussion I've seen is about the 15w-40. My understanding is that in a synthetic oil the base stock is the thicker number, in this case 40, so the 5w rating should only enhance start up lubrication without compromising hot viscosity. I assume this would be a good year round oil as long as summer time oil pressures were good. It is also a mixed fleet oil like the 15-40 and the price is certainly right.
thanks
Russell

Porsche Newbie

Is Boron a good thing or a bad thing?

Charles Navarro

Yes, you are correct in assuming the 5w40 listed is the syn rotella. I do think it is as good as or better than m1 0w40, it even has a bit higher of a TBN and should be slightly more sheer stable. The 15w40 rotella is the dyno version, and additive wise, is about equal to its syn counterpart. Also, you are spot on - if you have enough oil cooling, a Xw40 is more than adequate year round, especially for you in the east. My only qualm would be the 0 would provide better cold starts than a 5 wt. I can tell you I notice a big difference between cold cranks in my wife's w8 passat with 5w40 syn versus 0w40 in the 964.

Charles Navarro

I would imagine boron is a good thing. I found it in delvac 1300 super as well as the syn counterpart Delvac 1. The only other oil I found it in was Harley's syn 3 full-synthetic vtwin oil, which had quite a bit more (6 times more if memory serves me right).

r911

boron is a solid lubricant that works like Mb or graphite - at least in certain compounds or hydrides, according to what I've seen