racer

I was on track with my dad at an event. Infront of him we came upon another 911 that had rolled and a small flame was present. About 6-8 guys got out, got their FE's and went to be heros. About 50 feet away and BOOM! Loud noise and a fireball. Everyone ran away with their 2lb FE's. Luckily the driver had already gotten out of the car and was a safe bit away. The volunteer flaggers and their fire bottles were still to arrive.

My point is, it would have to be a very small fire, caught early, to be saved by the small hand held units.

Race cars carry 5-10-20lb systems for a reason. You need more to put out a "real fire".

If you feel better having it fine. If not, don't worry about it. You do have insurance don't you

IslandmanPA

I mount behind the driver's seat. It's reachable and the strap releases easily! My point exactly about extinguishers, carry the biggest one you can!

Seller of fine, used halons and halotrons!

earlyapex

I keep my car well maintained so I don't have to worry about it spontaneously combusting.

IslandmanPA

Bet you carry auto insurance! ;-)

MLIN

Having worked as a paramedic for years, I’ve always thought that having a FE in a car is a good idea, especially if you do DEs. I agree with Racer to a point, a small FE may not be sufficient to put out a “real-fire”, but it sure is better than not having one.

With my 6-point harness and a roll bar, I really can’t reach a FE mounted behind passenger or driver seat. But at the same time, I don’t want to spend over $300 buying Brey Krause mounting system. Any ideas how I can mount it in front of the passenger seat or somewhere reachable without drilling holes on the floor?

IslandmanPA

You could cut a piece of "L-shaped" metal stock and position the stock under the front bolts (seat slider) of the passenger seat. Couple of holes in the "L" stock and bolt fire extinguisher mount to "L" stock.

Seller of FINE used halons and halotron fire extinguishers!

theiceman

The local porsche guy in my area sells a bracket to mount it to the front of the passenger seat, it tucks under real nice..

I considered mounting it on the tunnel in the back. Unfortunately I also have a very mischevious 9 year old son. That to me was just a BAD combination....

MLIN

Not a bad idea.

Do you have a pic and the cost?

theiceman

no but I can find out I am sure , a buddy of mine bought it , I am sure the bracket was cheap. he was enetering drivers ed and I think out PCA rules require an extinguisher.

IslandmanPA

someone should create a moderately priced extinguisher mount bracket for the Porsche. Would be a quick sell!

autobonrun

I have a standard chemical FE in my car, not a halon. If you do some checking on Halon, I recall it is intended to be operated in a closed environment and works by eliminating the oxygen thus smothering the flame. Assuming you have to open the lid to the engine compartment or the door to the passenger compartment to reach the fire, the closed environment no longer exists and the halon is much less effective. I think a standard chemical extinguisher made for gasoline and other liquid flammables would be better.

As for mounting, I used the ring just in front and below the back seat. Just bought a 2" or so hose clamp and attached the mounting bracket to the ring.

IslandmanPA

I borrowed this from a web search. If doesn't address all the issues discussed, but bottom line, Halon/Halotron is the preferred extinguisher by both the government, Lear Jet and a number of other organizations!

From: "Philip G. Bodney" <[log in to unmask]>
Organization: North Georgia College
Subject: DEFENDING HALON

I would like to take time to defend my stance on Halon extinguishers
after having my opinion so brutally attacked.

First lets look at the rating:
WATER (A)
CO2 (B,C)
DRY CHEMICAL (A or B,C or A,B,C)
HALON (B,C or A,B,C) Not all halon extinguishers are ABC, some of the
smaller ones may extinguish type A fires but are not efficient
enough to be rated as ABC by the NFPA.

The properties of the "triangle of fire" are heat, fuel and
oxygen. Remove one and the fire will be extinguished or
prevented.
Water removes the heat by cooling.
CO2 acts in two ways, displaces oxygen (removes it) and cools
(removes heat)
Dry chemical acts by placing a barrier between the fuel and the
oxygen (removing one from the other)
Halon acts by OXYGEN DEPLETION (removing the oxygen)

NFPA 10:2-1.1....use of halogenated fire extinguishers shall be
limited to applications where a clean agent is necessary to extinguish
fire efficiently without damaging the equipment...

NFPA 10:A-2-1...Halogenated agent-type fire extinguishers contain
agents whose vapor has a low toxicity. However, their decomposition
products can be hazardous. When using these fire extinguishers in
unventilated places such as small rooms, closets, motor vehicles, or
other confined spaces, operators and others should avoid breathing
the gases produced...

For more read NFPA 12A, NFPA 914, and NFPA 232A.

Most insurance companies will require a specific type of extinguisher
depending on the building's intended use. For instance, in
mechanical/boiler/electrical rooms usually a BC rated extinguisher
will be sufficient. In a library ABC is usually required. This
means you have three choices: 1) ABC Dry Chem, 2) A Water (A) AND a
CO2 (BC), or 3) an ABC Halon.

Next let's look at a hypothetical library setting. Most libraries
have a few computers on a table in a well-ventilated area. Along
with the computers will be irreplaceable books and other research
material. If a fire starts inside of a computer it is safe to assume
it's an electrical fire caused by a short or overheating. WATER (A)
would not be acceptable and would damage the books and other
computers not currently affected by the fire; dry chemical will put
the fire out but will damage the internal components of the nearby
computers not currently on fire. CO2 might put the fire out but the
fire is also burning "class A" material and might not work on this
material since CO2 is only rated for B and C. And then you'll have
to explain to the insurance inspector why you didn't have an approved
ABC extinguisher on hand and were forced to try to extinguish a type A
fire with a BC extinguisher. Not only that, but now you've lost more
than just the one computer since you could not stop the fire (books,
part of the building, etc.).
HALON (ABC) will extinguish the fire and NOT damage the internal
components of the nearby computers. And if the fire still gets out of
control the insurance can not question if you used the correct type
of extinguisher or not.

I'm not saying put HALON extinguishers everywhere, just one near the
computers and other expensive electrical equipment. Dry chem ABC is
the best for protecting the books (no water damage).

Finally for those who argue that "it depletes the ozone".... the
primary concern when fighting a fire is safety of personnel,
protection of undamaged equipment, and then extinguishing the fire (in
that order).

If the fire is so large that so much HALON would be required to put
it out that a concern of ozone depletion or O2 depletion (raising
personal safety concerns) would be a factor YOU SHOULD NOT BE
ATTEMPTING TO PUT OUT THE FIRE ANYWAY. The pros with the
(usually) red trucks should be there by this time.

AND THAT'S NOT ALL... not only is the fire depleting oxygen faster
than the use of HALON to extinguish it would, the fire is also
producing toxic vapors and other pollutants as it burns.
HALON may be an ozone depleter but it is not controlled by the EPA as
such and the fire is releasing NOx, SOx, ***, PM-10 (I wonder if I
need to include these in my Potential To Emit calculations for my
Title V air pollution permit...), and plastics, when burned, release
dioxins unless incinerated for 2 seconds @ 1800 degrees F.

Until there is a better extinguishing agent that will not damage
electrical components AND is rated ABC, Halon is still the best
available (portable).
The chances of having to use the extinguisher are slim, weighing the
pros vs. the cons, the pros have it.

Some people in the world are too smart for their own good but lack
the common sense God gave animals.




"I know nothing.....NOTHING!" (The Sergeant Schulz disclaimer)
"Well, we're all gonna die sometime." (The Dr. Kavorkian disclaimer)

Philip G. Bodney
Environmental Health and Safety
Coordinator
North Georgia College
Dahlonega, GA 30597

(706) 864-1697
INTERNET

autobonrun

That's a good writeup. Thanks.

I don't see anything inconsistent with my statement and the writeup. Halon WAS the preferred extinguishing agent for computers and other electronics in an enclosed environment. The example in the writeup discusses extinguishing a fire inside a computer which is an enclosed environment. For entire control rooms, the procedure in case of fire detection was to evacuate personnel, shut off the HVAC, and close the doors; again to keep the environment closed off.

However, Halon is no longer recommended for control rooms either. We use FM-200 now. A control system I installed in the Middle East used FM-200 as the extinguishing agent. Pretty cool stuff actually.

http://www.e1.greatlakes.com/wfp/common/jsp/index.jsp

Maybe if you kept the lid to an engine compartment closed and sprayed the halon through the condensor cover, it might work. However, in the case of a car fire, I'll just deal with the damage from the chemical agent. I think you would have a much better chance of extinguishing the fire before it got larger if you actually smothered the source with the chemicals. Again, this is just my opinion.

gunlover05

Much appreciate all the opinions!...in the end, I bought a regular FE for $10 from, yes, walmart....for now, I have it tucked securely in the front of the front trunk...I will evaluate mounting it inside the car sometime later....

Yes, I do have full coverage insurance, so worst case senario, I would get the pleasure and excitement to search for another one (and probably spend even more $)

Daniel Dudley

I lost a car to an electrical fire, and saved a truck with a 2 litre bottle of orange crush. How much do you like your car ? The insurance company wrote off my truck, but because I put the fire out so quickly I was able to recover it and fix it for less than 200 dollars. The collector convertible was toast in less than three minuits. I still have the body.

New paint job, wiring harness and interior, 15,000 $.

Fire extinquisher. Priceless.

Any questions ?