balain

Hello,

I am wondering if a 1978 911, 170'000kms, 188bhp, would be a decent base to create a basic track car ? (I am new to this, and have only been on track with my everyday 993TT, but I don't wan't to do this again without a proper roll cage, and don't wish to modifiy my car now)

I would start by removing all the unecesarry stuff (back seats, stereo, AC, ...) to gain some weight, and then install a roll cage, shell seats (at least one ), harness, see if the spring, shocks. torsion bars need replacing ...

I believe all this could be done under 20'000 CHF (approx. 15'000 US$) including the car.

Would this be a decent track car ? Is there anything special that HAS to be done ? should I forget about this I find a more recent base ?


Thanks for any informations.


Alan

Conekiller

I think it sounds like a great idea for a track car, and it will really teach you how to drive because you will have to learn how to drive fast in the corners because you wont have the speed the newer cars have on the straights. I'm not sure how much a SC goes for in Switzerland but i would budget more then 15,000, if your going to turn it into a full track car, suspension seats harnesses cage etc.

balain

The base, I am looking at is a 1978 with 170'000 kms, with 188bhp, 16" fuchs
rims, I can buy it for around CHF 13'000.- ( approx 10'000 US$), I can do part of the work myself (Winters are long ! ), and have it checked by a proper garage.

Alan

Honkity Hank

If you are new to track driving then I would say no, not a good place to start. I wouild rather have a student in a relatively new, stock car on street tires. Once they have had a number of track days and have advanced in their driving skills then and only then going to a dedicated track car.

Then the SC could be a great choice, if you have track experience already then the only real problem with the SC is going to be the maintenence and preparation costs. Remember it is almost 30 years old, lots of stuff will be near or past its prime useful life, and when you are on the track components are stressed to their limits so be prepared to up-fix the beast before the first wheel meets an apex.

Gary R.

Nope, horrible idea...

Alan Herod

Actually, not an official position here; but, one from some experience. I believe that you should learn to drive the car you have; but, I also believe that you should start with a car like the SC for several reasons. Learning to drive the SC well will help you drive the 993 TT.

1. If the car is in reasonable condition it will be more reliable and less hard on consumables.
2. It does not have the benefits of all the aids that make many a beginner into an artificially faster driver. (no four-wheel drive, ABS, PSM, traction control, or modern suspension)
* You will have to learn how to threshold brake in slippery conditions
* The car will not save you -- many do learn to drive fast by having PSM and ABS as teacher
3. Less power, you will learn momentum and conserving energy.
4. Antique suspension, can be made to handle reasonably well, and you can tune it.
5. Worst case scenario - Crash the car -- retub it.
6. Regardless of what you select, start on street tires for the lower, more progressive limits. The car will slide easier and break-away with more warning.

earlyapex

Quite a few of us have 78 SC's for track cars!

As stated previously, they are very old and things need to be replaced or will soon brake under the stress of track driving. This car will drive very differently from your 993TT so get some instruction by a veteran 911 driver and you will learn allot about driving. The most expensive things that you need to budget for are an engine and transmission rebuild. They may not need it now, but they will need it in the future. I know! Go through the suspension and upgrade all the rubber pieces with appropriate poly-graphite or poly-bronze bushing. The shocks will need to be replaced with appropriately valved Bilsteins. The brake lines need to be new and calipers rebuilt. The rotors should have cooling ducts to them. Drop link sway bars like the one Smart Racing Products sells are much better than the stock pieces. Add on a bump steer kit from ERP. New high temp brake fluid and track pads (Pagid, Perfromance Frictions, etc). The stock Porsche brake calipers work fine. You don't need big brakes! Lower, align, and corner balance the car. A six point cage is better than a roll bar. A welded in cage is better than a bolted in one. You need a strut tower brace. Six point harnesses are better than five point harnesses. Budget for a HANS or othe H&N restraint. Wheels are up to you. I would go with 17 inch wheels as you will have much better selection of tires and tire sizes. Remove all HVAC. Remove the sun roof motor and mechanicals. Keep your side windows in case it rains. Remove the sound deadening material on the floor of the car. I used a $20 heat gun and flat screw driver. This is just the beginning. Go through every system in the car to make sure it works properly. Change things before they brake. Recheck everything a couple of times a year. Have a great time and don't look back!

Eli K

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<------78 Euro SC
I ran the car in DEs for two seasons (50+ track days) bone stock, minus interior, plus sticky tires. The only thing I've done recently is upgraded the suspension, including bearings, bushings, etc. Engine and transmission still stock. As Alan mentioned, a great learning platform.

PC2

IMHO, your estimate is a bit optimistic. A more realistic budget for a track car is 3 times the amount of the base vehicle's purchase price. May be not all at once but things will add up quickly and soon you'll stop counting the receipts ... I know I have.

Edward

Hi Alan,

What Eric (earlyapex) said!

I've got a 993 for daily driving and tracked her for several years before biting the bullet and taking the plunge into a track-only car: my 82SC. What Eric said is all excellent advice. And you are on the right track with keeping the car essentially stock, but gutting it to reduce weight, and add essential safety. The one thing I'd add is to stick with good street tires at first. Get REALLY comfortable with the dynamics of the car with lower limits like street compounds, and even stock suspension. Then upgrade the suspension/tires/etc as you go. And stay away from engine mods if you're interested in keeping costs reasonable. A good 3.0 in sound shape is plenty fine for track work. The most important consideration is a straight car with sound mechanicals to offer you a decent base on which to build. Remember that you don't have to have all the go-fast goodies that others have in order to have fun and learn to drive well (and fast).

Edward

Andreas.

Alan, I know someone who do tracks in a SC near Fribourg. i can put you in contact with him, if you want, Also he's an excellent mechanic and repair all the Porsches.

balain

Thanks for all your informations,

I am going to check with a garage how much should be invested in the car in a fist stage, to prepare a decent track car.

I know that there are no limits, and in a few years I might end up with a carbon body sc and have spent silly money, who knows how addicted one can be


Alan

Jay Gratton

As a instructor I believe this is a great idea. The SC will give you a good feel for what sliding a car feels like and unlike the newer cars that I feel are so high tech that you don't get the same experience. I think this is a same way to protect your expensive investment (your 993 TT). If you want to take out the itnerior, AC and put a bar in it then by all means please do that. However, I would get some good street tires and use them on the track at first so you can get a feel for how your car drifts. Just my $.02 however. You've got the bug and good for you for that!

Gary R.

You're spot on Larry, especially if you have the work don't by a good race shop... My car was $11K, and it will be up around $35K when all is said and done. Then you can add in the 915 rebuilds (you WILL need it rebuilt, trust me) and pray that your engine holds up.....

stuttgart46

Something to consider before removing stuff is what class you may want to run in later. I've seen several people prepare a car for track days/DE's and then want to start racing. Their car was a great a DE car but those PMO's and other mods will put you in a faster class.
I know it maybe thinking way in advance but it can get expensive putting the car back in stock trim.
Other than that, I love the SC on the track. We are on our second '82 and it's a blast.
Keep us posted. I'd love to hear how it works for you.