911 maintenance
08-03-2006, 11:32 AM
#1
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911 maintenance
First, I apologize if I already posted this. I tried a few minutes ago but something went wrong and I dont think it actually posted.
Second, I have been lingering around trying to absorb as much as possible lately. My next step is to read Peters book and “101 projects…” But before I do, I want to ask about something that I assume is discussed in the books, but want your opinions first.
I am on the verge of making the jump into 911 ownership and want to get an idea of what maintenance is like on a SC. I intend to do most of the work myself. What should I expect to work on and spend on an annual basis to keep it running strong? Assume that the engine & tranny are solid with relatively recent rebuilds. Now, answering the same question, assume that the engine and tranny have not been rebuilt, have over 150k miles but pass a PPI.
Second, I have been lingering around trying to absorb as much as possible lately. My next step is to read Peters book and “101 projects…” But before I do, I want to ask about something that I assume is discussed in the books, but want your opinions first.
I am on the verge of making the jump into 911 ownership and want to get an idea of what maintenance is like on a SC. I intend to do most of the work myself. What should I expect to work on and spend on an annual basis to keep it running strong? Assume that the engine & tranny are solid with relatively recent rebuilds. Now, answering the same question, assume that the engine and tranny have not been rebuilt, have over 150k miles but pass a PPI.
08-03-2006, 12:12 PM
#2
8 months ago I was a newby 911 owner who owned a hammer and a mismatched set of screwdrivers. With the above mentioned books, a Bentley manual and hours of reading posts on this and the Pelican board I was able to get up the courage to completely redo the suspension on my 78Sc (shocks, turbo tie-rods torsion bar bushings, etc.). I have not attempted a tune-up, but with the exception of the valve adjustment it seems pretty straightforward. The basic answer to your question is: If I can do it (no prior mechanical experience) you can as well.
Sounds like your 911 will be your daily driver (mine is not) so I'll let more long-term owners answer your question about cost.
Also check this out. There is a newer version on DVD.
http://www.automotion.com/productpag...+Tune-Up+Video
Sounds like your 911 will be your daily driver (mine is not) so I'll let more long-term owners answer your question about cost.
Also check this out. There is a newer version on DVD.
http://www.automotion.com/productpag...+Tune-Up+Video
08-03-2006, 04:05 PM
#3
Nice post ulrichd and good work. The 911, in general, is very easy to work on, and the SC even easier if you prefer mechanical vs. electrical ignition and fuel injection. Valve adjustments are a bit tricky, but very doable by first timers (I did mine for the first time last year). I took about 3 times the book time to get it done, but I got it done. Next time will be much faster. Only thing you can't really do yourself is setting the mixture using a high quality exhaust gas analyzer. There's a cheap DIY one available from a company called Gunson, but I think its accuracy may be suspect. Then there are those that tune CIS cars by sound and "feel." I paid $90 for timing and mixture adjustment (1978 SC), and that's the only work I've paid for in two years.
At any rate, virtually all maintenance can be DIY even for first timers, especially with all the help available in books and manuals and online.
Brett
At any rate, virtually all maintenance can be DIY even for first timers, especially with all the help available in books and manuals and online.
Brett
08-06-2006, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ulrichd
8 months ago I was a newby 911 owner who owned a hammer and a mismatched set of screwdrivers. With the above mentioned books, a Bentley manual and hours of reading posts on this and the Pelican board I was able to get up the courage to completely redo the suspension on my 78Sc (shocks, turbo tie-rods torsion bar bushings, etc.). I have not attempted a tune-up, but with the exception of the valve adjustment it seems pretty straightforward. The basic answer to your question is: If I can do it (no prior mechanical experience) you can as well.
Sounds like your 911 will be your daily driver (mine is not) so I'll let more long-term owners answer your question about cost.
Also check this out. There is a newer version on DVD.
http://www.automotion.com/productpag...+Tune-Up+Video
Sounds like your 911 will be your daily driver (mine is not) so I'll let more long-term owners answer your question about cost.
Also check this out. There is a newer version on DVD.
http://www.automotion.com/productpag...+Tune-Up+Video
Ulrich (or others), Do you own this video? If so how do you like it? I have been looking (not that hard) for a good video and on different projects that i can do for my car. I have the 101 projects book which is great but the pictures are always a little diffferent that what i have and so there is always a lot of guessing, which in the past has worked great and other times not so much. Do you (or anyone) know of any other video sources that you would recomend? I have an 85 911.
Thanks Ron
08-06-2006, 01:17 PM
#5
Don, I don't own the video, just wanted to make Jack aware of it. If anyone has seen it I'd like a review as well. I find the 600 page Bentley manual a good companion to "101 Projects..." especially for bolt torque specs.
08-06-2006, 02:50 PM
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Jack,
I've put about 50K miles on an 85K mile 1988 that I've owned for 9 years. For the most part it has been pretty easy on maintenance however things do and will go wrong and you will likely wind up internet ordering parts to get it back on the road so IMO as a primary driver it could occasionally prove to be a challange.
Mine didn't do so well on the PPI, it had the dreaded valve guide issue which luckily was bad enough that it had burned a valve so the problem showed up on a leak down. Resolving the problem meant a complete top end rebuild. My car also had a transmission that would pop out of first when slowing down (I was told the springs lost tension probibly from storing the car in first gear) anyway other than the problems stated it was a very straight and solid car. I negotiated the price down but not far enough. I had a pro do the engine and trans work and although extremely expensive it was the best money I have ever spent because nothing he fixed has given me a problem since. Over the years my problems have been almost totally electrical, things like a bad window switch (you can remove a speaker and manually roll the window up, the tools come with the car), a failed seat reclining switch (hard to drive with the seat tilted back), failed voltage regulator and a failed voltage regulator the following year (put in a new alternator/reg and problem solved). Little things like gas struts on the hood always fail and the infamous sterring wheel bearing but they are more of an annoyance you get around to fixing. For me I just park the car till parts arrived. The valve adjustment is a pain but you need to learn (it's really not that hard) how to do it. At 130K miles the suspension now needs some attention as the rear spring plates have worn bushings so I'm sure the rest of the suspension is ready for a little TLC. Also My A/C needs about 16oz of R12 every year which is really hard to find but will blow cold after a charge.
As you pointed out a PPI by the most knowledgable mechanic you can find is critical! I would also recommend a book called "The Used 911" it points out many problem areas and also details significant changes by year. For me the G50 trans and improved engine management/fuel injection (read no air box explosions) pointed me to 87-89. I dont remember when the upgraded hydraulic cam tensionors went into production but if the car you are looking at does not have them, that's a CRITICAL upgrade. Everyone says "get the best you can afford" and I would second that because reviving a rough car will quickly put you in the poor house (read The Gold Plated Porsche). In fact read everything you can get your hands on and try not to be emotional (very hard with this car) about the purchase.
Bottom line, I am lusting after a Lotus Elise right now and will probibly buy one in the near future. The Porsche however is in no danger of being sold, maybe ever. It isn't the fastest out there and is starting to become a little more maintenance intensive now that its pushing 20 years old, but it's absolutely a pure sports car and still after nearly a decade of ownership is a thrill to drive. The torsion bar cars (Pre 90) seem to retain all the spirit of the original design and are the most durable of the air/oil cooled cars. I don't feel as passionate about anything that's new these days except the Lotus unfortionately it's a car that's already proven to be a maintenance nightmare.
Best of luck in your search,
Bill
I've put about 50K miles on an 85K mile 1988 that I've owned for 9 years. For the most part it has been pretty easy on maintenance however things do and will go wrong and you will likely wind up internet ordering parts to get it back on the road so IMO as a primary driver it could occasionally prove to be a challange.
Mine didn't do so well on the PPI, it had the dreaded valve guide issue which luckily was bad enough that it had burned a valve so the problem showed up on a leak down. Resolving the problem meant a complete top end rebuild. My car also had a transmission that would pop out of first when slowing down (I was told the springs lost tension probibly from storing the car in first gear) anyway other than the problems stated it was a very straight and solid car. I negotiated the price down but not far enough. I had a pro do the engine and trans work and although extremely expensive it was the best money I have ever spent because nothing he fixed has given me a problem since. Over the years my problems have been almost totally electrical, things like a bad window switch (you can remove a speaker and manually roll the window up, the tools come with the car), a failed seat reclining switch (hard to drive with the seat tilted back), failed voltage regulator and a failed voltage regulator the following year (put in a new alternator/reg and problem solved). Little things like gas struts on the hood always fail and the infamous sterring wheel bearing but they are more of an annoyance you get around to fixing. For me I just park the car till parts arrived. The valve adjustment is a pain but you need to learn (it's really not that hard) how to do it. At 130K miles the suspension now needs some attention as the rear spring plates have worn bushings so I'm sure the rest of the suspension is ready for a little TLC. Also My A/C needs about 16oz of R12 every year which is really hard to find but will blow cold after a charge.
As you pointed out a PPI by the most knowledgable mechanic you can find is critical! I would also recommend a book called "The Used 911" it points out many problem areas and also details significant changes by year. For me the G50 trans and improved engine management/fuel injection (read no air box explosions) pointed me to 87-89. I dont remember when the upgraded hydraulic cam tensionors went into production but if the car you are looking at does not have them, that's a CRITICAL upgrade. Everyone says "get the best you can afford" and I would second that because reviving a rough car will quickly put you in the poor house (read The Gold Plated Porsche). In fact read everything you can get your hands on and try not to be emotional (very hard with this car) about the purchase.
Bottom line, I am lusting after a Lotus Elise right now and will probibly buy one in the near future. The Porsche however is in no danger of being sold, maybe ever. It isn't the fastest out there and is starting to become a little more maintenance intensive now that its pushing 20 years old, but it's absolutely a pure sports car and still after nearly a decade of ownership is a thrill to drive. The torsion bar cars (Pre 90) seem to retain all the spirit of the original design and are the most durable of the air/oil cooled cars. I don't feel as passionate about anything that's new these days except the Lotus unfortionately it's a car that's already proven to be a maintenance nightmare.
Best of luck in your search,
Bill
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08-06-2006, 03:37 PM
#8
Bill,
The rear spring plate bushing replacement is the worst! A major PIA - I finally did mine after a got a $700 estimate for the bushing and ride-height adjustment from a mechanic. I hope I NEVER have to do it again.
The rear spring plate bushing replacement is the worst! A major PIA - I finally did mine after a got a $700 estimate for the bushing and ride-height adjustment from a mechanic. I hope I NEVER have to do it again.
08-06-2006, 06:02 PM
#9
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As the others have said, it is very approachable. Get a Bentley, Wayne's 101 & start doing a lot of reading. Rennlist & Pelican will be your encyclopedia. And start buying tools now. Metric wrenches, metric sockets - 3/8 & 1/2 drive, Allen wrenches, torque wrenches..
Ulrichd: I surprised that you had a huge problem with springplate bushings. I didn't find the process that much of a pita.
Ian
Ulrichd: I surprised that you had a huge problem with springplate bushings. I didn't find the process that much of a pita.
Ian
08-06-2006, 07:46 PM
#10
Ian,
My problem was, apart from being a first timer, that my torsion bars were stuck in the spring plates. No amount of PB blaster would help. I had to drill a hole into the torsion bar cap, pop it out and hammer the torsion bars out. This involved unscrewing the rocker panels, etc, etc. Add 95 degree temp to that and you get the general idea.
My problem was, apart from being a first timer, that my torsion bars were stuck in the spring plates. No amount of PB blaster would help. I had to drill a hole into the torsion bar cap, pop it out and hammer the torsion bars out. This involved unscrewing the rocker panels, etc, etc. Add 95 degree temp to that and you get the general idea.
08-06-2006, 08:05 PM
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OK. Now I understand. I will be dealing with that tomorrow, because I know one of mine is stuck due to a boo-boo. I just 'happened' to let the jack down quickly with a jack stand under the outer torsion bar cover. It wouldn't come apart when I tried last fall, so I'm in the same boat. And it's hot here too. 
Ian
Ian
08-06-2006, 10:39 PM
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Ulrich, Ian,
Can you tell me who's parts you used? If that's not legal on this board (I new to Rennlist, so feeling my way around) please email me, I enabled that feature. I have seen bushings made of a few materials out there and really don't know who's or what's best. I don't mind a little more harshness but I don't want to crack the glass when I hit a bump either. Would you recommend seeking out good condition used plates or is that really not the best approach with the new materials available?
Thanks,
Bill
Can you tell me who's parts you used? If that's not legal on this board (I new to Rennlist, so feeling my way around) please email me, I enabled that feature. I have seen bushings made of a few materials out there and really don't know who's or what's best. I don't mind a little more harshness but I don't want to crack the glass when I hit a bump either. Would you recommend seeking out good condition used plates or is that really not the best approach with the new materials available?
Thanks,
Bill
