Beethoven

Hello everybody,

I'm a new rennlister residing, at the moment, in Porsche's own country, Germany. I'm returning to the States (to Chicago, to be exact) in early June, and would like to buy, as my daily driver (I know, it's a slightly deranged scheme) a post-1984 Porsche 911.
I have lurked on rennlist and a few other lists and have a vague idea what to watch out for, but would really like your combined input on how to proceed. My budget is about $25,000 (rather less, if I need to keep money in reserve for repairs), my favorite body type is the 911 coupe from 1984 - 1993.
I have a pretty good lead on a 1985 Targa with 40k miles, recently rebuilt transmission, and service records from day one (sells at $20,000). I'm a bit wary about the Targa roof (leaks and noise) and like the slant of the coupe's back better, but I guess one has to compromise somewhere.
I know you're probably bored with answering appeals like mine, but I would be tremendously greatful for all advice you can give me both with regards to the problems of the various years and engine types I'm interested in, and with the various problems to look out for in the process of a long-distance purchase.
Thank you very much in advance--I soon hope to be able to ask more specific questions once I own a Porsche.
Helmut

CN

$20,000 - $25,000 should get you a lot of 1986-1989 as you discribe.

Try searching <a href="http://www.autotrader.com" target="_blank">www.autotrader.com</a>
put in your zip code and other critera
There are no less that 25 of them. 1986-1989 all sorts of mileage.

Why should it need a "rebuild" for a tranny with only 40k miles? That's just a puppy.

Jay H

Helmut:

Here's a brief run down on the age range you are looking at (US models):

1984 - 1986: 3.2 liter Carrera. 200 hp, 185 ft lbs of torque. Bosch Digital engine management. 915 transmission (bullet proof but slightly balky shifting as compared to later years). Porsche brochure claims 6.3 second 0-60 times.

1987 - 1989: 3.2 liter Carrera. 214 hp, 195 ft lbs of torque. G-50 transmission was the main change from the prior years. Smoother shifting, hydraulic clutch. Same interior and exterior as prior cars except for minor running changes over the years. Porche brochure claims 6.1 second 0-60 times.

1989 - 1994: 964 series (Carrera 2 and Carrera 4) including Porsche's first production AWD 911. 3.6 liter, dual plug motor. 247 hp, 228 ft lbs of torque. More modern conveniences such as power assisted steering, ABS, Air Bags, updated A/C and ventilation system. More weight and power which goes along with more complexity. Porsche brochure claims 5.5 second 0-60 times.

Some feel the 1987 to 1989 cars are the most desireable due to them retaining a raw feel and having the improved shifting of the G-50 transmission.

The only major problem that could affect a 3.2 car is premature valve guide wear that shows up around 40,000 to 60,000 miles. Not all that common of a problem. Otherwise, check for all the usual used car problems (brakes, tires, accessories all working, oil leaks, etc., etc.).

Here's some more info on potential 964 problem areas on my site - - &gt; <a href="http://www.jays911.com/Tech_Info.htm" target="_blank">Here</a>

I suggest picking up a few books on 911's to really get into detail on all the changes that occured during the years in question.

A knowledgeable Porsche tech should inspect any car you are considering to buy to find out what major things (if any) are wrong with the car before you buy it.

Good luck in your search,
Jay
<a href="http://www.jays911.com" target="_blank">90 964</a>

HarryD

Helmut,

We were all newbies once and have had similar questions. Glad to have you join the party!

I'll let others speak to the specifc pluses and minuses of the years you are interested. I want to speak to your concern about a Targa.

I wanted a Targa since part of my driving experience is related to having an open top. My '73 Targa DOES NOT LEAK nor would I expect any Targa to leak. Remember, I live in the rainy NW of the USA and this is a significant issue.

There is a bit more noise in the cabin due to the broken air flow but that is a common issue with all soft tops. When I first got the car, the top was improperly adjusted and the wind noise was horrendous. A few minutes adjusting the clips, and voila! more normal noise levels. I personnally do not find the noise objectionable.

Compared to the British convertibles I have owned and driven in, the construction of the Porsche soft top in much superior and allows you the enjoyment of a open top car plus a unique driving experience.

Good luck in your hunt.

<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

Stuttgart951

Helmut welcome.

First and foremost, $20-25K will, as previously stated, buy you an aweful lot of 3.2L Carrera (84-89). For reference, I purchased a 9/10 88 Coupe two months ago for $17K with 97K miles and not a drop of oil outside the engine - all maint done.

$20K for an 84 is alot, but considering the low milage and condition you describe, the price cant really be nailed, it boils down to what the buyer is willing to pay.

Be sure to have a good mechanic perform a thourough PPI (Pre-Purchase Inspection) so you dont walk into a car that needs thousands of dollars of work. Its a $150 investment that can save you an ownership nightmare.

Good luck and good hunting!

Beethoven

Thank you guys so much for these answers! I'll narrow the field down and, with your permission, come back with new questions once I have a set of candidates. In the meantime, I'll be listening in (and trying to read up--the only Porsche books in Germany I could find are unfortunately either shop manuals or Porsche PR jobs).
It's good to know one isn't alone with one's obsession!
Helmut

Sonic dB

Helmut, I just paid $17K for an 86 Cab in really excellent condition, only 65K miles, records etc. I love this car.

Figure out what style/year you want and go looking. Here are some good sources:

<a href="http://www.cars.com" target="_blank">www.cars.com</a>
<a href="http://www.autotrader.com" target="_blank">www.autotrader.com</a> (also has classic car section)

Ebay (if owners number is listed call him direct and avoid the auction thing)

<a href="http://www.autoweek.com" target="_blank">www.autoweek.com</a> classifieds

Do Google search on the year and model and others will pop up.

Here is a good article on buying a pre-owned Porsche:

<a href="http://www.ipa.net/~warpspd/bruce911.html" target="_blank">http://www.ipa.net/~warpspd/bruce911.html</a>

* Good luck. I literally went 2-3 weeks of several hours a day hunting, reading, learning, losing sleep before I found my car. Its worth the effort, so dont settle for less.

gr8fl4porsche

I wish people would stop selling their cars so cheap!! Its making the rest of us very unhappy.
I hope that when the stock market eventually rebounds, those of you who purchased 87-89 cars for the high teens will realize a nice return on investment, if you decide to part with a piece of art.
Some say our cars are not investments - ever look into buying a very nice condition 356?

Beethoven

Hi everyone,

encouraged by your replies, I went out on the net and shopped. There are two beautiful 89 coupes with 50k resp. 60k miles out there, but they are at the top end of my budget ($25,000) and I haven't been able yet to reach the dealers to argue over the price.
There's this car that intrigued me, and I wonder whether you can tell me what all the upgrades are for (and what they might say about the owner's psyche):

91 Carrera,MUST SEE! 91k miles. Too Much To List All!Full Steel conversion on a 75 Chassis,Updated with
Best of Everthing!5spd,Tensioners,11blade fan,SS wires,K&N,Jacobs,Bursch Exhaust,Short
shift,Blistins,Updated swaybars,CornerBalanced&Aligned by suspension Guru Steve
Alarcon,Genuine Turbo Twists,New Pirelli's,New master cylynder,Crossdrilled Rotors,H5
headlights,Fuctioning motortail,SS door sills,Momo steering wheel&shifter,EclipseCD/FM
systm,12 disc,Perfect int. custom mats!

I'm afraid I don't know what most of this means. What is a functioning motortail?

Anyway, the price for this baby is $16,500, and I know what that means: money in the bank to prepare for repairs.
Thanks for your help!
Helmut

Luus

There's nothing better than a Targa on a warm sunny day, heck it's even great on a not so warm or so sunny a day My Targa doesn't leak and I don't find the wind noise objectionable at all. (I've recently been relocated to the Netherlands, lots of wind and rain here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

The fact is if you plan on getting a Targa you should be prepared to do a little maintenance. Rubber gets old and dries out over time. I have a very low mileage 1988 Targa and have had the front and rear rubber replaced and the top gone through. A small amount of maintanance goes a long way.

Good luck with your search!

'88 Targa <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

pwd72s

"91 Carrera,MUST SEE! 91k miles. Too Much To List All!Full Steel conversion on a 75 Chassis"

Isn't what he's saying here is that the car is really a 1975????

Luus

YIKES!! Sounds like a Frankenstein. I'd leave that one alone.

Sonic dB

Helmut... I saw a ton of "conversions" (newer body style on older chassis) when I was looking for my car.

I talked with several Porsche experts, including an old friend of mine's Porsche mechanic. They all told me to stay away from conversions. If a conversion is not done properly, the welds can easily break.

Thats probably why the car is so cheap ($16K) because the market value on a conversion is way below Blue Book.

++++++++++++++++++

gr8flPorsche said:

"I hope that when the stock market eventually rebounds, those of you who purchased 87-89 cars for the high teens will realize a nice return on investment, if you decide to part with a piece of art."

** I got my 86 Cabriolet for a steal. Its really a sweet, well maintained, low-mileage car. The owner is out of work and needs the money now to pay for child support.

I got so lucky and found a seller who absolutely needed to sell now. This is a guy who bought the car 2 years ago for $22K and put $5K into it in new rims and a new top!...this is not to mention the money he put into it to improve the mechanics and motor.

I could probably sell this car now for $22K (if I wanted to) but I will never sell this car. This one is going to be with me forever.

Beethoven

Guys,

thanks a lot for saving me from the strange Frankenstein Porsche!
It turns out that I won't be able to return statesides before the end of June. So, unless the perfect offer comes my way, I will probably hang back and try to educate myself, and begin searching in earnest again at the beginning of June.

Did you know, by the way, that used Porsches are about twice as expensive in Germany?

Best,
Helmut

P.S. Who'da thought that a "conversion" was a -- conversion?

pwd72s

Rather than buy a '75 with a faster looking body, I've always thought it would be fun (C'mon lotto ticket! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ) to buy a solid '74-77 car. Being the most unpopular 911 model years according to Bruce Anderson, they are relatively cheap. Then put your money into rebuilding the 915 gearbox, installing a limited slip. Upgrade the suspension, go to '80's 930 brakes, the largest that will fit under 15" wheels. Next up? Cruise the wrecked-em yards for a '96 or later 993 engine, & a good front mounted cooler. Do as few body mods here as possible...Q ships...I've always loved em! Anybody remember the first year of the galvanized body?