thrasher

Wow, I'm a bit humbled that not only Pete Z is commenting, but now also Steve W... gotta love the internet bowdown

So, I'll throw out my question again - of the dino oils, now that I am believing there's at least enough doubt about Castrol GTX, what are the most popular/best formulations?

Kendall GT
Valvoline
Others?

Also, are the "high mileage" variants just marketing gimmicks or will my 157k air-cooled engine benefit?

PS: I realize this is highly subjective and most comments will be anecdotal. I'll keep researching the archives, but if you feel this is at least a somwhat current/healthy topic, please comment.

Charles Navarro

The new kendall GT is pretty much worthless. They sell it at the local gas station for peanuts. If you want what was once sold as Kendall GT, you have to get Brad Penn/Penn Grade Racing, but they only offer a 20w50, and it's a semi-synthetic 70% penn crude and 30% PAO syn.

Valvoline VR-1 is pretty good, but it's a tad low on Zn and P for our engines. The new Castrol GTX is very different and actually has the highest levels of Zn and P in a non-synthetic. I know of more than one engine builder that switched to GTX (only the 20w50, all the other grades have very low Zn and P) when Kendall GT changed a few years ago.

The high mileage variants have lots of what would be considered wear metals in them, like stop leak and stop smoke, but just in the motor oil. I am currently testing quite a few of the high-mileage to really see what they are all made of.

I have not had a chance to scan them all in, but I have had Stavely Services test over 40 oils to see how their additives vary and their TBN (total base number). When I do get around to scanning them, i'll post them on http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

thrasher

So, contrary to Pete Z and Steve W, you are saying that Castrol GTX 20W-50 is superior to older formulations and is preferable to current formulations of the Kendall GT and perhaps Valvoline VR-1 but still inferior to the Brad Penn/Penn Grade, which is a semi-syn and presumably more pricey given it's marketed as a race oil?

My high-mileage (157k) 3.2 doesn't leak, smoke, anything on the Castrol GTX 20W-50. It did leak with M1 (?5w-50?). I also have "normal" oil consumption - so maybe I don't 'need' the high-mileage formulations because I don't have symptoms it's supposed to address.

Charles Navarro

VR-1 is a goog oil, don't get me wrong, and is a better oil than Castrol GTX, just GTX has more Zn and P, which is good for cams and anti-wear. That is my gripe with Kendall GT, it has the lowest levels of any oil I tested, not to mention the lowest TBN. The Brad Penn product is very similar to some vintage NOS Kendall GT from the 70s that I tested for comparison.

I personally don't care about the leaks, i'd rather leave a few marks in the garage or driveway for the added protection and performance of a synthetic. Even the occassional puff I get out of my 70T with it's original 2.2 with 95k miles doesn't concern me- it had no leaks or smoking whatsoever with the Castrol GTX 20w50 in it. I do however have better oil pressure with the Mobil 1 20w50 V-twin that I currently am running, and run lower oil temperatures (which helps in a sportomatic, especially when I'm driving it hard.).

thrasher

Well, if you must choose between a dry case and poor protection and vice/versa, I'd side with you on a few drips. However, I don't necessarily feel like I'm putting my engine at risk by using Dino oil.

By "better oil pressure" with M1, do you mean higher, lower or what? I noticed slightly lower pressure and temp with M1, but that was mainly at startup with things leveling out with the Castrol once it hits operating temps. I have the extra oil (28 tube) cooler and even in hot stop and go traffic and an 85 degree (ambient) DE last fall, fortunately, my car runs pretty cool.

Charles Navarro

Sorry, my bad... Higher oil I should have said, at idle, when warm.

kenikh

I have toyed with the idea of running 20w50 V-Twin motorcycle oil in my car. Do the Harley's run integrated lubrication systems (engine and tranny on one oil) like most bikes do? Does this result in a different formulation? Is it better/worse/neither for a car?

Peter Zimmermann

See post #27 in the "Oil temp dilemma" thread...
Pete

Charles Navarro

The only difference is in the friction modifiers, moly, just to name one, as they have to formulate them a little bit differently if it's ok for a wet clutch to prevent slippage. It's otherwise safe for our engines per the API rating.

glenncof

rnln,

Which Vavoine did you use ?

I have 171K miles on an 1985 using Castrol 20W50 and have tracked gas mileage each tank for four years. I'll try the switch and report the results. It is very hard for me to believe this though.

thrasher

glenncof,

if you read/believe what is in this thread, you should also see a dramatic, but temporary, increase in your oil consumption after the switch from Castrol GTX 20W-50 to the Valvoline. As Steve W explains this as the rings being so gooked up from the Castrol's poor detergent qualities, that they will be rendered temporarily ineffective by the Valvoline's detergents removing the gunk. Only after things return to equilibrium will your oil consumption return to "normal".

If that all happens, even without a corresponding increase in fuel economy, I would think you're doing your engine a great service by switching. That is exactly what I'm hoping you'll report back on. There is some dissention about whether the new Castrol formulations are still not up to snuff or if Steve's observations were based mainly on older oils.

Hope to read about your findings.

Craig

glenncof

Craig,

After thinking about this for awhile I came to the same conclusion as you suggest. rnln did indicate 26-27 mpg in his first post and later indicated 25-26.

This could be explained in many ways but diminishing returns was certainly a distict possibility.

I think Mobil 1 would give you the best mpg if you can keep it in the engine. It may not be cost effective though.

I would still like to know which Valvoline rnln used. Is it the VR-1 racing or standard off-the-shelf or other ? I may try it just to see what happens.

Switching oils permanently will require me to study BOBISTHEOILGUY http://theoildrop.server101.com
until my brain hurts. I'm not ready to do that.

Thanks

Also, I do oil changes now at 2700-3000 mile intervals and have gone through rapid change cycle (every 1000 miles) for 15,000 miles to clean it out after 120K. Maybe I don't need detergent.

rnln

Glenncof,
It's the regular 20/50 off the shelf.
About the mpg, yes, I can not tell for sure the precise number since it's only been 2 tanks for the contanst distant I used after the switch. But I definitely got more than before, not a little more but a
lot more.
Normally, I got between 20-21. The first tank calculated out to be around 26-27, but I doubted that I forgot/messed up some numbers. Therefore I came up and post the question. I note the numbers more careful the second tank, and it was a little less compare to the first tank. Right now, my couple days new baby boy just came out and messes up all my driving schedule/distant, therefore I can't really tell. I want to wait untill my regular schedule is back, with the same distant, same schedule, proximate same traffic to calculate it again. On cleaning up oil, I will pay attention on my next oil change and will post what I will see.

glenncof

rnln,

Thanks. When I can get a case of the stuff discount I might just try it for the heck of it.

Congrad's on the new boy. Get some sleep...

rnln

it surprise me. I didn't beleive it. I know oil grade can affefct MPG but not much that you can see. Also, this is talking about the same grade.
Will keep up the info, if any diff.
Can't sleep now, working. When I am ready to sleep, then he's ready to "sing".