theiceman

Great info guys, I plan on doing skidpad and autocross put on by the local PCA group this year. Especially since my 944S was so neutral I could go into corners very fast and if you got into trouble a quick flip of the wrist to counter the slide and put on the power and you were away, and more power than my SC ( 190 ) . I would never be so arrogant to think I could drive the 911 in the same manner, so that is what got me wondering about going back to scratch and relearning how to drive this car . There are lots of gret instructers in our club so I may take advantage of it and have them teach me the nuances of the car ... if I ever get it off those darned jackstands ...

Doug&Julie

...er...I was kinda kidding. I think...

Christien

So here's a further question, then. At what speed and tightness of curve does one need to start being concerned about oversteer? For example, what about a sweeping curve on a standard highway at regular highway speeds? What about, say, 10 or 20 over the limit in the same curve? It's pretty common to need to slow down in a curve in regular highway driving, due to traffic, as opposed to on a track where you can be sure that you'll be able to complete the turn at the speed you started it at.

JCP911S

Simple.... never, EVER get yourself in that position in the first place... if you don;t know EXACTLY where the apex and the line are, slow the &(*& down... if you can't see through the turn... slow the (*&(_ down.

Do not try this at home....:

That said, on the track, if I hit a turn early, or push wide and have to tighten the line, I ease up slightly on the throttle to induce some "trailing throttle oversteer"... this rotates the car... when I;m going the direction I want, I just get back on the gas to set the car back... I may use a touch of counter steer to fine tune... this is very slight fine tuning... very advanced.....

If you do DE, maybe by the time you are at the top of the white group you will be ready to start playing around with throttle steering a 911... in the mean time, drive sensibly and the car will be just fine

Doug&Julie

What sends a 911 into it's bad handling habits is the abruptness of the change. If you can do it smoothly enough, pretty much any speed can be handled by the 911. And at the same time, you can be going very slowly and still make it spin.

So I guess the caution is, when driving on the street, just make sure you have plenty of room to make slow or smooth transitions and always give yourself plenty of time to make corrections. But that's just good safe driving.

Realistically, at most traffic speeds, you won't have any problems.

Doug&Julie

Check these out...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=241722

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=236905

..it can happen anytime...anywhere...any speed...

Christien

Doug,

I've read both those threads in the past, and the pics of the white 70 E flash through my mind every time I'm on the freeway in a curve and someone does something stupid in front of me, which happens far more frequently than it should. What I've taken to doing (aside from leaving my self as much room as possible) is taking curves on the inside edge of the lane so, if necessary, I can momentarily straighten out the car and apply the brakes, then get back on the gas to continue the turn.

I did a skidpad last summer, and was unable to get the car to really spin, which helped improve my trust and confidence in the car. I tried to induce oversteer in some of the wider, higher-speed turns during DNF laps of an autocross, but same thing. Needless to say, I didn't try this at higher speeds at the Mosport DE! I'd still like to find a safe place to induce a full-on oversteer, though, just so I can see what it feels like. I need a big open parking lot on a rainy day

MarkSchu

The question remains...what does one do in a 911 if one has entered the turn too fast. The previous post and my experience driving with my instructor seem to indicate that the 911 can handle most turns with more speed than most of us amateurs realize, and if we just stay on the gas, we will drift to the outer limits of the track, but eventually get the car moving in the correct direction. I guess the real issue is what happens if you run out of track? My own experience in my first DE, is that it is way better to go off the track front ways rather than backwards. Leaving the track backwards with your instructor screaming "Don't lift" in your ear is not a pleasant experience. Letting two tires run off the track in a "controlled" 4 wheel drift would seem to be an easier mistake to correct.

Christien

I think you're right on both counts, Mark - the 911 can handle higher speeds than what we'd think (and feel comfortable with) without rolling, and you're far better off driving straight onto the grass than ending up in an oversteer situation. So I think the answer to the question is, no matter what, NEVER lift! It will create more problems than it will solve.

(bear in mind I'm also an amateur, with only 2 DEs under my belt!)

Alan G.

If you get into a situation and have to think about it, it is already too late. The concept of unconcious competance comes to mind. Through practice we build up consistancy and speed in hopes to approach car and driver limits safely. After learning the track and understanding your car's handling traits, you pick the spots to test the limits. A nice wide run off or a gravel trap is much more fun than armco or tires.

The mental exercise is not in figuring the thing out, it is in consistancy which comes from practice. The concepts of car controll are important to know, but are no substitute for refined instict. Doug was exagerating the floor it thing, and there are times where that works, but it can make your problems worse if you still lose it. The same can apply to overcorrecting for drifting off the pavement or trying to save a spin and driving into traffic or other noisy objects. The pros know when it is too late, push both feet in and go for a ride.

Alan

TRINITONY

TIA

Seric

I saw a classic example of what not to do in a 911 this past weekend at an Club Auto Cross. A guy had an older 911, I think it was a 69, and he was braking hard halfway into the turns. The results weren't good

Everyone working the course payed very close attention to him while he was on the track, didn't want to get mowed down by this wildman.

Christien

Holy ****, that's not cool. I hoped someone explained to him the danger. At least it was at the slower speeds of an autocross. That kind of irresponsibility could easily result in major damage and injury at the track!

r911

as time went by the problem was reduced more and more - even the late 911s weren't too bad, much less the 964s which had a different suspension than the previous cars.

The 356s were supposed to be the worst, then the SWB 911s, then the early LWB cars etc. I haven't driven anything older than 1973 or newer than a 964 so that's just what magazine articles & books say.

Glenncal1

I tell you the "evil handling" 911 myth is one of the biggest loads of hoey in the car world. If the cars didn't handle they wouldn't win all the races they do and they wouldn't have been built for 40 years. They do handle a little differently than a front engined car, but if you have a front engined car at the very edge of adhesion on a turn and stomp on the brakes it will spin/slide as well. You don't want to brake any car while turning.