Rick964

What accounts for the difference in horsepower between Euro and US models? Is it the smog stuff that lowers our horsepower, simple DME change or real engine differences?

SC-targa

A lower compression ratio and revised engine management mapping reduce the US version power. The cat was available in some other markets and Porsche claimed the same power with or without.

Regards,

Jerry

Rick964

Thanks.

TonyG

Rick964

The compression ratio is substantially higher, the cam timing is different, and the transmission gear ratios are different, and typically the euro cars have a transmission oil cooler (external) which is a big plus when racing.

Most euro cars came with a silencer instead of a cat (depending on where the cars were destined for originally). And the DME for those cars are not the same as a USA DME (as well as the mapping of the DME chip being different).

The euro cars are lighter as well.


TonyG

Uli911

Same power with/without cat was only claimed for the 944 turbo.

911 with cat (this is 930/21 with 207 PS or later 930/25 with 217 PS) had lower power than 911 without cat (930/20 with 231 PS) here in Germany as well.

g-50cab

No difference in cam timing - the euro cars pre 1987 had a transmission cooler with the 915. If they are lighter - it's typically because they were less optioned. Biggest difference is the euro premuffler in place of the catalytic converter and the higher compresison ratio.

TonyG

>>>No difference in cam timing<<<

Not according to the set of manuals I have (or used to have). I'll have to see if I can find the pages to scan. Although the cams are the same, the timing was called out differently.

>>>If they are lighter - it's typically because they were less optioned.<<<

Again. Not according to the factory owners manual. The owners manuals do not take into account options when specifying weight. Here is a scan of an '84 USA factory owners manual and an '84 German owners manual (for the same car):

'84 US Car: 1250kg/2755lbs
'84 German Car: 1210kg/2667lbs

Difference: 88lbs


That's apples-to-apples, not factoring in options. And if you factor in options like the fact that most USA cars have sunroofs and most euro cars do not, the difference is much greater (and the fact that the weight is up way up high makes a much bigger difference).

Here's some scans for everyone's viewing pleasure:

TonyG

PS> Note the effect of the different transmission ratios on the last scan:



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g-50cab

I stand corrected = I guess it's an "earlier Carrera" thing...

Uli911

915 gearboxes:

1980/81

915/62 = Europe/ROW without oilcooler
915/63 = USA and Japan witout oilcooler


1984

915/67 = Europe / ROW with oilcooler
915/68= USA and Japan without oc
915/69= turbo-look Europe/ROW with oc
915/70= turbo-look USA / Japan without oc

1985

915/72= Europe/ROW with oc
915/73= Europe/ROW, USA, Japan without oc

Rick964

So all in alla Euro car has some real advantages.

Are there any problems with meetiing smog requirements with the Euro cars?

TonyG

Rick964

>>>So all in alla Euro car has some real advantages.<<<

For sure. Get one with a set of headers, MAF, and a good chip and they crank out great power.

>>>Are there any problems with meetiing smog requirements with the Euro cars?<<<

Nope. As long as the stock fuel injection is in proper order, you can slap on a factory Porsche cat, with the 02 sensor and it will pass both the visual and the dyno smog test here in California with flying colors. Done it many times now.

But trying to import one now days is a different story. If it can be done, which I doubt, it isn't worth the cost or hassle. The current euro Carrera I have was imported into Southern California in 1986 (it was much easier to do then).

Once the car has been registered, it will always be able to be registered. Then the requirements are just like any USA 911 Carrera.

TonyG

84_Carrera

I think I remember reading here about checking with your insurance company with the VIN of a Euro-spec car prior to purchasing, as I believe some companies will not be able to pull up the VIN (and will not insure them without serious hassle & paperwork, if at all).

TonyG

84_Carrera

>>>I think I remember reading here about checking with your insurance company with the VIN of a Euro-spec car prior to purchasing, as I believe some companies will not be able to pull up the VIN (and will not insure them without serious hassle & paperwork, if at all).<<<

I couldn't tell you one way or another. I do know that I've owned several euro Carrera's and I have two friends that each had one, and none of us had any problems insuring or registering them here in Southern California.

Based on this, none of us have ever hesitated in buying one. In fact... those are the cars we specifically look for! :-)


TonyG

g-50cab

Check with your insurance agent before making the plunge - I know of two people personally that were told they would not insure a car with zzz in the VIN#

TonyG

I know for a fact that Allstate & Progressive will insure a euro 911 Carrera (based on personal experience) with full comp, collision and liability.

I've never tried any other insurance company so I can't comment further on the subject.

TonyG