I have a 993TT, but previously had an 87 Carrera. My wife and I are getting a bit into DEs and I really hate to use the 993 as a learning car. Once we get better, no problem, but for now I am looking for something that is a little cheaper to own and maintain as a introductory DE car. Are the 87-89s nicely setup in stock form for this or are mods needed to make them track worthy?

 

I'm probably a rookie compared to you and your wife but I've done one 2 day event in my '86 and it did fine.

Totally stock, it ran near the redline for 25 minutes at a time (8 times)with out a hiccup and provided plenty of fun.

You'll miss the power of the 993TT in between the corners but you already know how to mash the pedals and hold the wheel straight. As a result of shifter maladjustment on my part I was stuck
in 3rd (or 4th) all the way around limititing my top speed. But it was a blessing as it made me focus on a smooth line,transitions and maximizing exit speed - which is what it's all about.

I envy you when you get that part down and then take the 993TT out.

An 87-89 should be even better than my '86 due to a better shifting tranny. Remember that these cars have no steering boost so you'll get some exercise on some parts of the course.

 

That's a great car to start with! I think it depends what you are looking for in a car before you make any modifications though. In stock trim the car will be very nice to drive. The usual track upgrade is to move up to 22/28 torsion bars and maybe even to bilstien sports. Nice tires and maybe a brake cooling kit would be nice add-on too. However, before you get into it too deep I suggest driving a stock car until you push it's limits, then upgrade. Or in your case, drive it stock, then sell it in a year and start tracking the 993. Late 87-89's have held their value quite a bit, you might be able to drive it and sell it for what you paid for it if you keep it stock.

Have fun

 

Chris - thanks for the input - your read my mind. I have missed our 87 since the day we sould it - even with a 993TT (modified to 500HP) sitting in the garage. The 87 has such a pure feel about it.

 

If you learn to drive on the track in a 911, you can drive anything after that.

richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L

 

Bill,

You know you're opening a can of worms! However, I'd suggest that almost any Porsche model, from the factory, is an excellent platform to begin and progress into drivers education. However, are there things that you may want to do, over time, to enhance the safety and performance? Of course! But to start with, no.

Actually, if your primary goal is to DE with this, I'd consider a 911SC. Very competent, strong, and less expensive than the 87-89's. Doesn't have the G50 transmission and a little less horsepower.

There are several articles on on tech.rennlist.com that talk to safety and non-racing performance improvements that can me made to our cars.

So, to start with, and for awhile, stock is fine. However, depending on the series you drive in, you may need to have a fire extinguisher as a requirement. BreyKrause makes a great stainless mount which can place the extinguisher in front or behind the passenger seat. Legs go easily over it if it's in front. Recommend Halon extinguisher, to not damage your aluminum engine, should you need to use it. OG Racing is a good source for the BK mount and extinguisher.

Helmets. Some DE groups have loaners for beginners. Otherwise, if you don't have your own you should get one. I recommend the full face helmet with the section in front of your chin. Be sure and try on the helmet you buy, as they all fit differently. I use the Bell M2, as it has a slightly wider eyeport which helps with glasses. Also, get a helmet support that goes between the helmet and shoulders. Racers Wholesale was around $25 last I looked. Keeps the helmeted head from hyperextending in an accident and may provide some support for the helmet during driving.

What are some upgrades you might want to consider? First brakes. With two of you doing DE's, stock pads will wear in no time, and you'll need to bleed your brakes more. In the non-race pad category, Performance Friction makes a great pad called "Z-rated" pad. Some like the Axxis Metalmaster pads too. Hawk and others also have good street/track combo pads.

You'll need to bleed your brakes more often. If you do this yourself, get any bleeder to pressure bleed them - don't have your spouse step on the brake pedal unless you want to buy a new master cylinder (pushing the brake pedal to the floor moves the master cylinder seals into parts of the cylinder that haven't seen movement, tearing them). Motive is one pressure bleeder for around $45, and there are others (I like the Eezibleed, around $30). Vacuum bleeders seem to have mixed results.

Brake Fluid: Use one that has fairly high boiling points. ATE Super Blue has been popular, but I hear isn't made, or at least imported, anymore. It's DOT-approved equivalent is ATE Typ 200 (same as Super Blue, just gold color), around $9-$10 per liter can.

Brake Cooling: You may want to consider a brake cooling kit which puts a cannister under the a-arm and routes air to the center of the rotor. OG Racing and Paragon Products, amongst others, sell them. If you have Fuchs rims and install brake cooling, make sure you use the appropriate piece to keep the air from flowing out the paddles. OG Racing's kit includes that part, don't know about Paragon's. If you need to get them, Craig Watkins has them at Smart Racing (www.smart-racing.com).

Seine Systems (www.seinesystems.com) makes titanium shields which go between the back of the pads and the caliper pistons to slow the flow of heat from the pad to the piston to the brake fluid.

Tires shouldn't be older than 6 years old, per Porsche, and rubber brake lines shouldn't be older around 10 years old. If the condition or age of the brake lines are unknown, recommend changing them.

Those are probably the primary suggestions I'd make for two people driving at DE. There are certainly many, many, more things that can be done to enhance safety and performance, too. As your skills increase, things like suspension, tires, seats, harnesses, etc become considerations.

Enjoy!

 

Hi Bill - thanks for the thorough reply. I would not likely upgrade power on this car, as my 993 has plenty of that. In fact, it would be nice to have less power at this stage. I took a 930 to a DE last year and wished I could cut the power in half all day as there was just too much too handle. I was more interested in suspension and brakes. I have about 10 hours of track time at this point, so am just starting to get a feel for the 911 at speed.

 

I have an '87 and a '72. I chose the '87 because it was less collectible and because of the G50 tranny. I hate guessing where to shift and I found my '72, even with a fresh tranny, not fun in track situations. The '87 has many of the same features as the '72, but more power and easier to maintain since it's newer. Great car to track!!

Cheers, James

 

As an aside, what would moving up to 22/28 torsion bars and bilstien sports cost?

 

Depending on what struts you have on the front now, and where you get the parts, I think a 4 struts should be ~$500. Torsion bars come in many varieties, hollow or solid, and brands so anywhere from ~$400-$600 or so for all four. This can be a do it yourself job but is pretty involved. The car should be aligned and corner balanced after completion.

Hope this helps

 

Check with the folks at <a href="http://www.shox.com" target="_blank">www.shox.com</a> on what Bilstein Sports cost - they pretty consistently have the best prices. As far as torsion bars, you might call Jason at Paragon Products and see what the Glen Sanders hollow bars go for. Those you do need to paint before installing (I used POR15 which is grease resistant/proof). Or the Weltmeisters on an 87 would be $299 hollow, front and $385 hollow, rear. Solid would be $260 front and $365 rear. The hollow bars weigh a bit less, which is always good around the suspension. If you're timing is good, you can get the Weltmeisters at 20% off during one of the Performance Product sales (one on now thru 7/31). Figure real ballpark, around $1000-$1200 for parts.

 

O.k. - so your probabkly looking a 1500 installed for this upgrade. How much does this impact performance at the track? Does this basically keep the car flat through turns? Is the car still streetable with this? Keep in mind, from the 993TT perspective the supension feels almost cushy on the road. My TT is lowered with ROW springs so it has little float at the track, but is still very comfortable.

 

Bill,

What 22/28's and Bilstein sports do is to stiffen up the suspension. On the track it's very nice, however, some would find it too stiff on the street. I had 22/29's in a 911SC with the Bilstein Sports, and I thought it was comfortable. The street ride was solid - not jarring or teeth chattering - but definitely not cushy. Your 993 may have progressive springs, which I also have in my C2. Comfy on the street and competent at the track (as long as you're smooth in transitions). The pre-89's, with torsion bars, are straight springs with no progressive nature.

You can upgrade the suspension any time. Suggest you find the 911 you want for DE, and start using it as you bought it. As your skills increase, then make your upgrades.

As you consider suspension upgrades, you do want to install turbo tie rods. Makes a marked difference in the steering. Maybe $120 in parts. Also, tires. "R" compound tires, which are DOT rated and usable on the street, make a big difference in stick on the track. If you're within driving distance of a "home" track, that says you get a second set of wheels to mount your track tires on (which is what I do - I'm about an hour from Lime Rock). You can peruse the Tire Rack web site for some choices. Kumho's are price performers and the new Michelin Cup's are getting great reviews, although they're a little pricey. And there are others too. Toyo RA1's aren't sold by the Tire Rack, but they are "R" compound and I know several racers who use them as track rain tires.

If you want to keep it flatter at the track, upgrade the sway bars to adjustable bars. That also allows you to play with the balance, so you can "tune" the attitude towards neutrality, as opposed to understeer or oversteer.

 

I assume the basic performance driving principles of the Carrera would translate to a 993TT?

 

Not exactly. The 993 is a more forgiving car. Sure, the basic idea is the same, rear engined so weight distribution is light up front, heavy rear. But, aren't TT's all-wheel drive? And, there's no power assisted steering with a 911.

The 911 is a tad trickier to handle. You won't have as wide a footprint, and the rear end can get loose easier than a 993TT's. Suggestion: no sudden lifting off the accelerator.

The Carreras are more sure-footed than the the real early cars ('65-'77). With the SC's came more rear rubber on the road.

I love the 993, and if there is to be a "next Porsche" for me, it would likely be a '97 or '98 "S" (though I have played with the idea of getting a Boxster, there's so many of them available right now, and swapping the engine for a 3.6, or 3.8). Mid-engined (close to neutral) handling, with the added 996 motor, could be entirely awesome.

Good luck with your decision.

richard
'87 Carrera-3.6L