Sonic dB

I need some advice on how to approach this. I have an 86 Carrera Cab that I had the valves adjusted by a Porsche mechanic back in August. After the work, I drove it for a couple of months and then purchased a 993 Cab. The 86 has been sitting but recently I took it out to drive it and noticed that the alt belt was really squeeling. I tabled it and then this weekend I was going to tighten up the belt.

I went to do this and noticed that my Porsche 911 orignal tool kit had apparently been raided by this mechanic and the Spark Plug Tool and Pulley Tools were missing. I am meticilous about these tools because I know they are rare + are really invaluable for working on an older 911 and I do most of my own work on the car.

I was a little ticked that the belt is loose already and I suspect that the mechanic did the shims improperly and did not have the proper tension on the belt. Also, the battery is now dead probably because it was not charging properly when I drove it. In addition, when he did the valve adjust the guy overfilled the oil tank and I had to drain some off.

So all of this was shoddy work, but the real issue is that I want my Spark Plug Tool and Pulley Tools back! Im going down there on Monday AM to talk with him....any advice on how to deal with him to get these tools back? Im going in there nice but expecting the worst which would be for him to not give the tools back. Like i said, Im certain that he either took them or he forgot to put them back in my tool kit when he was done. Its been 6 months though so maybe he will refuse to give them back or make restitution?

rnln

most probably I think you already lost them. This is one thing I hate, that I have to check the tools box evertime the mechanic finish their job. My current car don't have one now so... no worry
Good luck

imcarthur

Of course, it's the only 2 tools that you can really use. Ask politely & explain the delay. Then, if that doesn't work, point him to this thread & tell him how many Porsche guys use these forums & . . .

I pickup up both tools - used spark plug wrench for $15 from a PCA ad & my wife bought me a new pulley wrench from the Porsche dealer for $85. Both CAD $s. Not the point, I know, but you can get replacements.

Ian

ron mcatee

I would approach him or the owner of the shop and say that when the car was in the shop (date), the mechanic used those two tools and inadvertently forgot to replace them in the tool kit. After using, he probaly laid them up out of the way and forgot them and that you would like them back because they make up your complete tool set. Start off nice....without accusing him of taking them.

I always remove everything out of my car when I take it in for servicing (Porsche and domestic). That way I don't have a problem like you have now.

My question is.......doesn't the shop have their own tools to work on Porsche's?

Good luck.

Peter Zimmermann

Sonic: Not sure what to say here, but make darned sure that you know you're right. (1) There are no tools in the factory tool kit that enable one to "adjust valves." (2) No Porsche repair shop that has hung out a sign would ever use customer tools instead of their own - using tool kit tools to work on a 911 (instead of SnapOn, Stahwille, etc.) is like using a pick axe to put a 4mm hole through a piece of aluminum. If the shop replaced your alternator belt it is not unusual for a new belt to stretch slightly, shortly after installation, and make a little noise. A simple shim transfer is required, which I'm sure the shop would have done gladly for you. Give them credit for not making the new belt TOO TIGHT, which puts an unneccesary load on the alternator bearings and alt. housing. The oil being overfilled , there is no excuse for that. The battery, that's another issue that can have many causes that could be co-incidence, and not the shop's fault. A slightly loose alternator belt will not prevent the alternator from charging the battery. A missing belt will, but the engine will also overheat. If the fan turns the alternator is working. Please understand, I'm not taking the shop's side in this discussion, but I am suggesting that you be pleasant, open and honest. Start by asking about the oil level...
Pete

nineoneone

Yes to what Pete has said here, but, I think that if the shop was adjusting valves they could of pulled the owners tools to get the pulley wrench to turn the crank as needed for the adjustment. And really just forgot to throw it back in the bonnet. Were the tools placed as they were before going to this shop.( Were they where they were supposed to??) Simple, just ask the mechanic he may say , oh yeah, I got three now here's your back, sorry!! .02

911pcars

If this shop works on Porsches at all like Pete said, they shouldn't have resorted to using your tool kit. There are faster ways (i.e. $$$) to rotate the engine to adjust the valves. There are faster methods to remove the fan nut (i.e. $$$) and none of them involve the Porsche tool kit. However, the factory spark plug tool is pretty specific for this task and it works better than the usual array of ratchets, extensions and u-joints. Pro techs, however, might have their own custom made spark plug tool that one-ups the factory one. Other than that, a pro tech typically uses more efficient procedures to service cars ..... unless he's also a tool collector.

Yes, have a friendly, but inquisitive discussion with the shop owner. I'm sure he's interested in keeping you as a customer.. or at least he should be.

Sherwood

nineoneone

Sherwood,

Hello, ? What are those faster ways to turn that engine over for valve adj. Not trying to say there aren't but I for a diy'er only use those factory tools for those two items. I went to the dealer in Atl. and had to wait two weeks because the mechanics, (out of all the mechanics) in this store did not have the opr alignment tool, c'mon. How many posts have you read on here looking for that wrench. That spaner is worth it weight in gold. I can't turn my engine without it!!
used it with engine out this summer for clutch and fork repair. Again you are more than likely correct, I just (like alot of memebers here) have not had a good mechanic experience.

911pcars

Leonard,
I can't speak for Pete and other working pros. They may use the same techniques most DIYs employ, but I think not.

Assuming the car is on a lift or merely supported on jack stands and you have a battery and starter motor installed and operational, here's what I do. Use them.

Connect a remote starter switch to the starter solenoid. This <$20 item can be found at your local parts store or even fabricated from components found at Radio Shack or equiv.

As it relates to the exhaust valves; from the adjustment position (on your back or standing up), jog the engine around so the low point of one cam lobe (the heel) is touching the rocker arm tip. This is fully closed and may or may not necessarily coincide with exact TDC. It doesn't matter. The valve isn't going to close further than this. Adjust the valve clearance like you usually do. Go on to the next valve, rotate engine and repeat. Repeat on the other engine bank. After a few hundred valve adjustments, you may even develop an ear and feel for the proper clearance by moving the rocker arm back and forth. YEMV (your ear may vary).

You will notice this doesn't have to be performed in the firing order.

I'm lazy and couldn't see going back and forth between manually rotating the engine, then lying down, then going side to side in the firing order. Wasted motions. Can you imagine a flat rate tech constantly lowering and raising the lift just to manually rotate the engine?

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

PS: On a somewhat related note, I installed a remote starter switch (documented here, not necessarily for valve adjustments, but to increase the life of the increasingly expensive ignition switch). A similar push buttom switch could be installed in the engine compartment for service procedures like this (valve adjustment, compression test, leak-down checks, R&R distributor, etc.).

nineoneone

I scare easy when thinking of using my 200.00 starter to rotate a engine 12 degrees. I never heard of anyone doing this to a porsche. Not that it does not happen. The old school v8 high compression way!! You are right, would be easier for sure, now where's that darn feeler gauge? Thanks Sherman.

ron mcatee

sonicdb, what was the outcome of your problem? Was it resolved or did the shop deny it happened?

Peter Zimmermann

Turning over the engine is almost always done one of two ways. I use a stepped box end wrench, either 22mm or 24mm depending on the alternator nut size. The crank is always rotated clockwise, and a gentle push against the alternator belt, halfway between the alt and crank pulleys, does the job. The other most common method is to use a socket on a ratchet, 1/2" drive. Spark plugs are never removed until after the adjustment is complete, which avoids carbon contamination of the exhaust valves/seats. Once the car is in position on the hoist it's never moved up or down. The technician should be able to reach all the intake valve rockers comfortably, and can use a creeper to do the exhaust valves. Place the engine on TDC # 1, do both the intake & exhaust, move the engine to TDC # 6, etc..., always adjust 911 valves in the engine's firing order. There are absolutely no wasted motions with this process, and there is no chance of making a mistake. I'm familiar with the flat rate way of doing things; forget #6 intake and the three valves under the cat, they're too hard to do. I can't tell you how many first time in SCs that I've serviced where all the lash settings were pretty close, except those four valves. FYI: YOU CAN'T hear valve clearance by wiggling the elephant foot. The oil lock inside that part can vary, which will change the pitch (noise) that it makes when it's wiggled. EVERY valve must be set using a feeler gauge that is clean and scratch free, no other way can get the job done.

The starter button method is a beautiful thing on 914s, by the way. The entire job can be done standing under the car.

Pete

nineoneone

Thanks Pete, As you mentioned I do mine in firing order as well. #6 dayam forgot how hard that was to get the gauge in and not bend it. lol, I really enjoyed doing mine.