2002M3Drew

The M3 series actually has a pretty interesting history. The original M3, the E30, was purely in existance for homologation purposes to pave the way for the E30 M3 race car. This race car became one of the most famous and successful BMW racers in their European history. The E30 M3 street car was more like a platform that they used as their canvas to build a street legal race car. This car in its day was rough and crude when compared with the very similarly styled and priced 325is. In fact, the 325is, with its stiff suspension and beautifully smooth and torquey inline six, actually felt faster to most when driving the two cars back to back. The M3 was a major disappointment to those buyers who thought they were getting a faster 325is. They were buying a four cylinder race motor, for better or worse. Around town, it felt like a 318, but rougher and stiffer. Those that explored the upper limits of the engine, and the razer sharp handling of the M3, realized it was indeed a race car. Many unappreciating owners traded them in on 325s! No kidding! This also was a phenomenon that was also happening with the M5s and M6s of the day...many traditional US buyers did not like them as much as the 535 and 635 counterparts.

The E36 M3 was designed in a response by BMW to the E30 M3 experience. They built two of them...one for the USA, and one for the rest of the world. The rest of the world received the 286hp bona fide M motor, and the USA received a variant of the 325 motor, tuned to produce 240 hp. It was also much less complex than the ROW motor, and cost less to produce (our M3 was cheaper than the ROW version). (The US model, in fact, may never have been produced at all if not for the efforts of the BMW Car Club's members, who clammered for the M3 on our shores.) While a great chassis and a decent motor, it was dumbed down for the USA. This car was not a pure sports car. Styling was mostly unchanged from a standard 3 series coupe, unlike the raucious E30 M3. It had no serious vices, no downsides compared with the garden variety 325is. It was as smoooth, as comfortable, and a little faster than a 325. The ROW version, on the other hand, was a monster. It also had some "race car" vices, like a clunky clutch, rattling flywheel, peakier power delivery, etc. US M33 owners didn't like the fact that a vastly different version of their car was being sold everywhere else, including in Canada. Even if our US version, with lots of torque down low, was better suited to our driving, enthusiasts wannted the faster car to be offered here.

Enter the E46 M3...now with one motor for the world. It is a monster motor, and has some "race car" vices as a result. The clutch could be smoother, he tranny could be slicker, the engine could idle without a clutch rattle, etc. It's great, though. The styling of this M3 is also different in many ways from a standard 3 series, much like the E30 M3 was different. Still, the weight and size of the car contribute to GT handling traits. It is a very comfortable long range cruiser, but also at home on the racetrack. It is really a wonderful automobile.

The best is largely personal. The original M3 has a pure feel much like a pre-964 911 car. The E36 M3 is a great balance of drivability, fun, power, and overall competance. The E46 is wickedly quick (4.8 sec to 60), beautifully styled, and comfortable...a perfect GT.

Gary R.

I own both, actually 2 911's and one 330 Ci. I can't comment on the track performance of MY BMW vs. the 911's but can relate what happened recently. On November 11th CT Valley Region of PCA held a DE at Limerock Park in Lakeville, CT. I was signed up for the 11th and 12th in my 78 SC track car in the Yellow group at the time (advanced Novice in our area). I (due to my car's outstanding performance) am one of the fastest in my group, and this day was by far the fastest. On the last run I made sure to start out early and was behind a 2005 BMW 330i coupe the owner was running because his car (911) was down. Well, all I can say is that I pushed that BMW around but I could not get by him! I spoke with the owner afterward and he told me it was 100% stock and that his DSC light was going wild but he kept his foot in it and kept me at bay. I think this says volumes about BMW and am happy to buy another one when the new M3 400HP with 7 spd direct-sequential arrives! His car had very little lean (and I was 10' off his bumper, so I know), amazing it was stock!!

I LOVE my 911, but do not underestimate the "other" German engineers, they have been busy..

sym3pilot

i own 2 E46 M3's, and i love the car.. i do tho however want a turbo.. and have driven the turbo. i will just say they are both great cars.. but i wouldnt trade my M3 's for a non turbo.. but a turbo? hmmmmm and to say all BIMMER owners want a p-car, well ok... a turbo maybe..hehe

ventoGT

This thread has some good opinions, and I'm glad that BMW-owning folks are chiming in...seems like most people recognize that the BMW is a very capable car [especially in M trim], but the Porsche is as well, and I think it speaks volumes that the SCs can hang with the higher HP Bimmers...I will probably bring that M3 to the next track day at Road Atlanta since my M491 is a cab and I don't want to weld in a rollbar [or maybe my girlfriend's upcoming Cayman S, if she'll trust me to not run the thing off the track ], so I will update once I get the M3 on the track...I can compare to my old 996, but I never tracked my 993, only had spirited mountain drives with it.

STA76

We are a privledged bunch, comparing, (and in many cases having driven or owned) two cars that 99.9% of the population can only dream of. It is clear that both styles have fans, and while it is fun to play the "mine is better" game, it seems like a moot point. Lets face it, with the level of modifications going into cars these days, what is beneath the emblem is not consistent from one car to the next. So, unless we are talking about 911s and M3s of the same year, bone stock, we may as well be comparing 911s to Chrysler Lebarons. Furthermore, on the continum of automobile excellence, as we near perfection, the differences become miniscule. Not unlike comparing blond and brunette Victoria's Secret models. Sure, we may have a preference, but a wink from either would elevate the BP!

joseph mitro

excellent point, although i must argue that bimmerforums, the "equivalent" of rennlist for bimmers, seems to be loaded with teen- and twenty-somethings who can afford the relatively affordable E36 M3. most are true enthusiasts, but the point is that the desirable M cars are no longer out of reach for most of the population. oh well, i'll enjoy mine nonetheless!!

2002M3Drew

I'm actually amazed at how may new E46 M3 owners are in their early twenties. $55,000 is a lot of car for a twenty-something! BMW does attract a younger buyer than Porsche, no doubt. The 911, 964, 944, 951, 968, 928 all can be had for well under $20K, but younger drivers seem to gravitate to E36 M3s instead. Probably a good thing...the maintenance costs of a Porsche are not for struggling students!

umfan866

I have had a (non-M) e30 BMW for 19 years now as a daily driver --well actually it was my father who owned it first, then me starting in 1995, but we picked it up in Germany in Munich when I was 17.... in fact its a 325e (now chipped) which has a lot of low-end torque but no top end-- (it feels powerful driving around the city--but the car is basically lying to you). But the handling on this car is amazing and driving it you really feel the road and the gears--it is very visceral. It is also fun to see it get better with each mod-- chip, Bilsteins, better tires, strut bar, etc. Soon I will start autocrossing etc and then perhaps "graduate" to a 325is, E30 M3, or E36 M3, but my real dream is to own an 87-89 911.

The main factor is cost-- an incredibly modded 325is can be had for 4k, a rough E30 M3 for 8k, and a decent E36 M3 for 12k.(Mint E30 M3's are still going for 18,000 and going up in value as of late). In contrast I can't even find a beater SC for less than 10k that doesn't have major issues, nice SCs are up to 15k, 1984-1986 911 are 12-17k depending on condition, and 87-89 911s are 16k-22k. And that's the purchase price - the maintenance costs on Porsche's are higher--I had a recent clutch/tranny job for 2.5k but I guess 911's will cost you 3k for the clutch job alone? Well, I'm saving my pennies, because I still do want that "dream" 911 --the bodystyle 74-89 they had when I was in high school...

ventoGT

I do agree with the bimmerforums stereotype...not only the younger thing, but also the depth of knowledge...Rennlist is the finest board I have seen out there thus far. My $.02

RicoJay

I happen to think the 951 is a more appropriate comparison for the E36 than a 3.2 911. My 951 was much faster and handled at least as well as my friend's E36. They were both very similar in comfort level for grand touring. The 3.2 is much more of a 'sports car', as someone mentioned. It is raw, uncomfortable, unergonomic, and everything your hands or feet use when driving is hard and stiff and sensitive. It's truly a very different package from the normal cars we see daily, and it's easily evident why it is so classic. Also, I had no idea what kind of difference in sheer looks the 911 has over the M3 or 951. I always liked the look of the 951 personally, thinking it was nicely understated and masculine. People gawk at the 911. They see the 951 and the M3 and say "there's a nice car", but the 911 is in another league altogether. If you could put up a new '86 3.2 for the 21.5K I paid for it, you wouldn't be able to make enough of them. If you made an E36 like new and tried to sell it for 21.5K, you'd need a big parking lot.

1. 911
2. 951
3. E36

SeanPatrick31

I have an '88 M3 and an '84 911 Cab. The M3 is exclusively a track car. I still have it tagged, but that is just to run it every now and then to keep the battery charged and fluids moving. I have done many, many mods to the M3 including completely removing the interior. It is having a cage built up over the winter. The first generation M3 is an absolutely wonderful track car. It is extremely predictable, handles great, is reasonably light and has enough motor with certain mods to keep up with much faster cars. In all honesty, I am not that great a track driver, but the car is so good at being a track car that it makes me perform better. As an added plus, it has none of the electronic gizmos that interfere with driving (except ABS).

The 911 is a Sunday driver with no mods. It is of course completely different than the M3. I love driving it hard around town or just going for an easy drive for ice cream with my three young sons.
I am not using the car to its full potential, but it still provides loads of happiness in a different way than the M3.

Even with the newer generations, I think that the cars are just different. I agree with the earlier posters that they are not perfect substitutes. Each of them has a place. I also agree that those who need to get into a "mine is better" discussion are just insecure. Most BMW guys that track really dig the 911 and I suspect that most Porsche guys can respect the M3. FWIW, the BMW CCA invites all car makes to its driving school track events. Every school that I have been to with the BMW CCA has had a fair number of Porsche guys. It is cool to see the Porsche guys checking out other makes and the BMW guys really enjoy when other cars show up. At the end of the day, its just about driving and having fun.