Torsion bar combo recommendations please
11-18-2005, 08:26 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N. OC, CA
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Torsion bar combo recommendations please
I'm in the process of collecting suspension parts for my car (71 T) and can't decide on what size of Sanders hollow T-Bars to install. The car will be driven 30% on streets (some weekends, to and from track) and 70% on track. I'll be installing Smart Racing #20 Sway Bars F/R, turbo tie rods with bump steer kit, adjustable rear swing plates, Poly-Graphite bushings (can't afford ER's Poly bronze), and MPSC (205/55/16 & 225/50/16) tires. Should I follow Bruce Anderson's advice of 21/27 or other popular combinations like 22/29, 23/30? Thank you for your inputs!!!!
Last edited by PC2; 11-19-2005 at 08:21 PM.
11-18-2005, 11:39 PM
#2
RL Technical Advisor
Peter:
If I might offer some advice,......
1) I think you'd be happy with the 22/29's on your light '71 T.
2) Please, please reconsider your decision about the poly-graphite bushings. I've installed hundreds of these over the years, even hand-fitting them with our lathe to make fit as best as possible. Regardless of those efforts, they have a LOT more inherent friction than the Poly-Bronze ones and are a poor substitute for the Elephant ones. Eventually, they will squeak & bind and you'll take it all apart to fix it once and for all.
You have a neat car and you've compiled a great list of components that will make an excellent handling 911. Please don't compromise the entire effort by using the urethane bushings.
Save your money and do this right!
Get the Poly-Bronze bushings and you will be FAR happier with the end result and you'll not have to do the whole all over again later on..
BTDT, and I'd stake my 33+ years doing 911's on this issue.
Hope this helps,
If I might offer some advice,......
1) I think you'd be happy with the 22/29's on your light '71 T.
2) Please, please reconsider your decision about the poly-graphite bushings. I've installed hundreds of these over the years, even hand-fitting them with our lathe to make fit as best as possible. Regardless of those efforts, they have a LOT more inherent friction than the Poly-Bronze ones and are a poor substitute for the Elephant ones. Eventually, they will squeak & bind and you'll take it all apart to fix it once and for all.
You have a neat car and you've compiled a great list of components that will make an excellent handling 911. Please don't compromise the entire effort by using the urethane bushings.
Save your money and do this right!
Get the Poly-Bronze bushings and you will be FAR happier with the end result and you'll not have to do the whole all over again later on..
BTDT, and I'd stake my 33+ years doing 911's on this issue.
Hope this helps,
Last edited by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems; 11-19-2005 at 12:07 AM.
11-19-2005, 12:19 AM
#3
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: in the Hinterland
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Peter,
Sometime ago I needed to upgrade my suspension in my 1975 911S to balance the output of the 3.6 motor. Steve Weiner @ Rennsport Systems designed a complete package including Sanders torsion bars 22/29, Smart Racing adj sways, adj spring plates, Elephant Racing Poly bronze bushings, and revalving the Bilstein shocks so that everything worked as a cohesive system. The car'sweight and tire size has a lot to do with it too. He knows these upgrades like nobody else. Needless to say, the car is amazing on the track and handles with aplomb. Pay the money and do it once-Right!
Nick
Sometime ago I needed to upgrade my suspension in my 1975 911S to balance the output of the 3.6 motor. Steve Weiner @ Rennsport Systems designed a complete package including Sanders torsion bars 22/29, Smart Racing adj sways, adj spring plates, Elephant Racing Poly bronze bushings, and revalving the Bilstein shocks so that everything worked as a cohesive system. The car'sweight and tire size has a lot to do with it too. He knows these upgrades like nobody else. Needless to say, the car is amazing on the track and handles with aplomb. Pay the money and do it once-Right!
Nick
11-19-2005, 12:41 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N. OC, CA
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you Steve & Nick for your valuable advice, I take them whole heartily. Originally, I had planned for the Poly-bronze, but because there are so many things to do to get this car track worthy. I thought I might get away with Poly Graphite since most complaints I've heard are just them being too noisy. But I also believe in doing it "once and right" so I will take your advice and seriously reconsider the Poly-Bronze. I might have to put the Wevo shifter on hold for now.
11-19-2005, 02:11 AM
#5
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Peter,
You've got a nice car in the makes. I'll chime in and recommend that you don't use MPSC's on such a light car. These tires are not very good cold and you'll have trouble getting them heated up. Consider Victoracers or RA-1's.
You've got a nice car in the makes. I'll chime in and recommend that you don't use MPSC's on such a light car. These tires are not very good cold and you'll have trouble getting them heated up. Consider Victoracers or RA-1's.
11-20-2005, 12:25 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location: N. OC, CA
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by earlyapex
Peter,
You've got a nice car in the makes. I'll chime in and recommend that you don't use MPSC's on such a light car. These tires are not very good cold and you'll have trouble getting them heated up. Consider Victoracers or RA-1's.
You've got a nice car in the makes. I'll chime in and recommend that you don't use MPSC's on such a light car. These tires are not very good cold and you'll have trouble getting them heated up. Consider Victoracers or RA-1's.
Thanks for the recommendation. I've not considered the weight equation when selecting tires. All my track experiences were with my 3200+ lbs 964. This is all going to be very interesting when the new season starts next year.
11-20-2005, 10:11 PM
#7
Advanced
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Poly is definitly crap, but I've no experience with the poly-graphite. I'm (finally) installing the ER rear bushings now. The front ER's were very tight at first and required a bit of sanding to fit(the low-friction front mounts weren't available then) but now work pretty well. The frame might have been slightly tweaked as well.
I'm using the ER's with the adjustable Sway-a-way spring plates, and have found a couple of things which are an issue:
1. There is an 1/8 gap(/dirt-magnet) between the cover and the spring plate end where the bushing is exposed. I'm welding a fitted steel o-ring as a barrier and a 1-7/8rubber 0-ring inside to slow down the contaminent penetration.
2. (Most important!!!)The outer torsion-bar doesn't seem to be grabbing all the splines in the cover plate- due to the added thickness of the 2-piece spring plate and/or the ER bushing shoulder.
I'm thinking of welding a bolt (sticking out) onto the T-bar end, which would stick out through a hole of a plate welded to the end of the spring plate tube, and then "set" the T-bar depth with a tacked nut outside that. Still not sure though, should be repeatable.
I'm using the ER's with the adjustable Sway-a-way spring plates, and have found a couple of things which are an issue:
1. There is an 1/8 gap(/dirt-magnet) between the cover and the spring plate end where the bushing is exposed. I'm welding a fitted steel o-ring as a barrier and a 1-7/8rubber 0-ring inside to slow down the contaminent penetration.
2. (Most important!!!)The outer torsion-bar doesn't seem to be grabbing all the splines in the cover plate- due to the added thickness of the 2-piece spring plate and/or the ER bushing shoulder.
I'm thinking of welding a bolt (sticking out) onto the T-bar end, which would stick out through a hole of a plate welded to the end of the spring plate tube, and then "set" the T-bar depth with a tacked nut outside that. Still not sure though, should be repeatable.
