grn356

[QUOTE=MarkSchu]
>>I have gone to his place and seen many of his cars, some are great, some not so great. He has a reputation as an aggressive porsche salesman. Bottom line: There are two types of used car dealers, enthusiasts who collect fine Porsches and just happen to sell them: RPM in houston is a good example, another is AIC, and then Car dealers whos sell cars to enthusiasts.<<

Since you mentioned this dealer I will relate my buying experience. This past summer I purchased an '87 911 Carrera Coupe with 60,000 miles from John Witmer. The car was advertised as flawless and after a couple of conversations with John I was convinced the car was essentially flawless, and I purchased it without a PPI, paying top dollar. ($28,900) The buying experience and delivery was flawless. John even replaced the clutch which was a concern only because it had 60,000 miles on it. As advertised, the car appeared flawless with an unbelievably nice interior & exterior. The downside: The air conditioning which was advertised as being updated didn't work because of no refrigerant. I contacted John by e-mail twice regarding this defect and asked that since the car was advertised as flawless would he pay for half the cost of remedy? No answer. Later, I dsiscoverd both outside CV boots were badly cracked ($350 repair) So, my buying experience from AIC was both good and not so good. The moral of this story is get a PPI from a disinterested Porsche knowledgeable mechanic before purchase.

500

I've been on and off considering selling my WRX and adding a new (used) P-car to the stable. A 3.2 Carrera would be very attractive. At any rate, I happened on to the Victory Motors Website and found this very appealing looking '88 Silver Jubilee Carrera. I was highly interested. Gave Robert a call and he confirmed that it was in very good condition, and had low mileage. Price was a little high, but I would pay a premium if the car was good (exchange rate is favorable for Canadians right now). I was so serious, I opened a line of credit, so I could purchase the Carrera before selling my WRX. A few days later, after I had made the financial arrangements and had some names of Houston shops that could do a PPI, I called Robert back and found out the car had *just* sold. He suggested an '87 he had on his website... Condition, color etc was not as appealing, but it was still not a bad looking car. I went so far as to run the carfax on it and noticed some discrepancies, which I appreciate can happen. I emailed Robert about it and he never responded.

Funny thing was that the Silver Jubilee model remained on the website for quite some time after. I even phoned about it, figuring maybe the deal had fallen through, but that was not the case.

After reading this, the Pelican and the Roadfly threads, I believe that this MAY be a place where you could find a good car, you really have to be careful...

Trader220

Its the shell game, it looks to me as if he plays it all the time. He buys cars on eBay under several names and he lists cars on his website long since sold. IMHO, if you see a car you like just be very sure you cover all your bases.

Cajun

Amjf088,

I saw that car, it was nice but if my memory serves me correctly, it did not have the original seats in it...I think we are talking about the same car.

When I asked about it, he told me that it was no longer available....Interestingly enough, of the three cars I saw on his showroom floor that I was interested in enough to ask about, none of them were "available"....

500

Yeah, it probably was the same car. It is frustrating when you have to call just to find a price and then find that most of what you're interested in isn't even available. I'm not really attracted to the idea of buying from a dealer, but at first I thought Victory might be a company that searched out good cars and did the homework on making sure they were in good selling condition. Now I'm of the opinion that they are just a "buy and sell fast" type of operation and do not add any value at all. I was kinda turned off and won't call back...

imcarthur

Read this. Read again. And again. And . . .

It doesn't matter whether you're buying from some slick, shill-bidding, name-changing bait & switch flea bay Internet dealer, from your buddy's best friend or from the Pope. Get a PPI - especially with a remote purchase - or you are on your own & risking your hard earned dollars.

Set aside $1000. This is your PPI budget. Hopefully you won't have to spend it all.

Take your time & BE PREPARED TO WALK even once you've made a time & $ investment. I spent $850 or so on 4 PPIs in 3 different states over a 6 month period & I would do it again.

Ian

imcarthur

Oh, I almost forgot . . .

One of my PPIs was in Houston, @ Swiss Garage. Ueli (pronounced similar to Willie) is the owner & the shop was busy & immaculate. 713-626-9320.

The car failed leakdown & compression . . . as did another one I PPI'd.

Ian

Pedro356C

No affiliation here but Victory has a 100% positive feedback...a PPI is key when buying a vintage Porsche...but you have to be prepared to spend some extra $$$ to bring the car to your own standard. Victory bidded a friend's car to $22K...a pristine 964 that he's selling for $25K...maybe he could get it $22 (not from my friend) and sell it for $25K...making a $3k profit...the guy has a business after all! Bottom line, the best way to buy a P-car is from another enthusiast...but don't forget the PPI w/leakdown test...

fixnprsh

Some of the buisness ethics sound fishy too me, as I regularly search Evilbay for P-cars, and they usually show up at Victory for more than they sold for, If he does all the sevice the car needs and fixes the little things it needs, GREAT. If he buys them, jacks up the price with nothing more than a detail by a minimum wage guy in the back, thats capitalisim biting you in the ***. Not the best way to do business, but as I have no dealings with him, I can't say. But unless you know for sure, you could be doing serious damage to someones livelyhood................

we are still talking about a USED car, even the last 3.2 is now 17 model years old, even if it has low mileage, they ALL will need something, just figure on spending a couple grand the first year to bring everything back to tip-top.

When I worked at the dealer, EVERY used Porsche that came on the lot that had never been damaged we kept, and got new tires all around, new brakes if they were less than new, all the services, and anything else that was needed or worn.
Thats why Circle sells alot of used Porsche's, they are top notch and we never had a customer comeback griping, did he pay more for it than he would have at Autotrader? Yup, but our customers in the community knew that they were buying a sound car.

I know for a fact that low mileage cars have more problems than say a 120,000 mile car that has been well kept, sitting degrades hard and expensive to replace seals and parts.

As stated above, regardless of what ever used car you buy, be it a Porsche, or a BMW, from a friend or stranger, have it checked out, it could save you thousands, or a friendship, hell, I've sold cars that I have refused to sell to ANY of my friends...........................I've done alot of PPI's for people and they pay off big time.

Chris M.

I bought my car from Victory and one year later I haven't had a single problem (knock on wood) with it. There were a couple of things I replaced when I got it that he maybe should have done; rear decklid shocks, speakers all around, sunroof seal, rear tires. But mechanically it is sound. I asked a ton of questions about service records, leaks, DMF replacment...the usual 964 stuff. He said it was in immaculate condition and it is. He said everything worked and it does. Maybe I got lucky and this was one of his good cars. After seeing the service records it was clear to me that the car had been very well taken care of (over $17K in receipts!) and this is the reason for it's condition now. I doubt Robert is performing major services to his cars. Unfortunately he still shows my car for sale in his Autotrader listings which is classic bait and switch behavior. He definitely does not have all the cars he shows on his site.
Anyway, it's your job to do as much as you can to find out every detail about a prospective car and even then you might not get a good one. A PPI can help but we all read the story here on Rennlist where the guy doing the PPI bought the car right out from under the guy paying for the PPI. So who knows? Do your homework and use your gut.

c

Trader220

He's now buying manuals and stamped service books off eBay to put into the cars he sells

joey c

at the end of the day,victory has a lot of 911s..some WIll be good and others not,But he is not honest about his cars..he offered me a 911 with many options,looked great but after a ppi,i found out it had a pretty bad oil leak and all of the options metioned did not work..his response was even worse..I WOULD NEVER DEAL WITH HIM AGAIN..If he was the only dealer in the usa,i would drive a different car..its a shame that he deals with porsches..he should sell used fords..pintos

ruckmjr

..I WOULD NEVER DEAL WITH HIM AGAIN

Exactly. If you have to buy from Victory, make sure you know exactly what you are buying. The car I got {as a gift} had many problems but what bothered me was that Victory had the car "worked" before we picked it up. The hood and quarter panel were re-sprayed as well as the interior to make it look nice. The first week that we had the car the paint contracted and shriveled up. Terrible hack job on such a beauty. Overspray all over the interior. I would go elsewhere.

Gary R.

Cajun - Since your willing to shop and spend tens of thousands of dollars online and place value on Rennlist MEMBERS opinions why not become a Rennlist member and help support this great forum?

Just my $.02 in suppoert of ths fantastic place! 254 posts? Trader 700+ posts? WTF?

Shark

Horrible experience just recently.....will avoid at ALL costs (and I live in Houston)